23 Carat Gold Leaf?

[jfiscus]

I just received the specs on the latest firetruck we're going to be lettering... and one of the specs is 3" Tall 23 Carat gold Leaf letters.

I know Leo's sells it, but are there any alternatives out there?

 

[SignManiac]

Art essentials is one and Wrights of Lymm is in the UK.

 

[Jillbeans]

Also Sepp.
Love....Jill

 

[Si Allen]

I think my 1st question would be ... gold leaf applied with size and loose leaf or premade gold leaf letters, or maybe SignGold?

BIG difference in your quote!

 

[jfiscus]

They specified Edge printed/cut 23k Gold Leaf with Laminate; so the hand-painted type wouldn't work. Art essentials sells rolls of 23k material.

What is it about these companies that sell this type of material that their websites are so horrible with lack of information on the products???

 

[Gino]

They specified Edge printed/cut 23k Gold Leaf with Laminate; so the hand-painted type wouldn't work. Art essentials sells rolls of 23k material.

What is it about these companies that sell this type of material that their websites are so horrible with lack of information on the products???

Roll leaf is usually 1", 2" or 3" wide rolls. It's true gold leaf, nothing that can be printed on with any machine. This is primarily the technique I personally use for any gilding jobs. Our gold is 23-1/2k. I have 1", 2" a custom made 2-1?2" and a 3 " roll handle. We do not laminate, but clear with liquid on certain jobs when finished with the appropriate clear after everything is finished.

Sign Gold I believe is 22k and not truly considered a gold leaf product by most die-hard gilders. However, it can be printed on and laminated.

Here are some gilding tools and materials and some digitally printed Sign Gold products

 

[sar bossier]

We did a fire truck last year, and used 23c Sign Gold, got it from Fellers ...

 

[natedawg9640]

sign gold isn't 23k... it's 22k so if they specified 23... then its not SG.

also... hand gilded is too possible with the edge... we do it every day. been gilding fire trucks for 25 years.

There's ways of hand gilding onto the truck itself (traditional) or you can utilize the Edge to make 23k graphics to be installed quickly on location.

 

[Gino]

sign gold isn't 23k... it's 22k so if they specified 23... then its not SG.

also... hand gilded is too possible with the edge... we do it every day. been gilding fire trucks for 25 years.

There's ways of hand gilding onto the truck itself (traditional) or you can utilize the Edge to make 23k graphics to be installed quickly on location.

Can you explain what you mean there. I'm either lost or really stupid.

To my understanding, by Edge, you can only edge print vinyl going through a machine with thermal foils.... am I correct ?? And then send them through a cutter to be cut-out. Am I still thinking right ??

How do you get gold on the side of a fire engine to go through an edge printer ??

 

[natedawg9640]

lol. I think you misunderstood. You cut a stencil, apply to the truck, hand size the area, remove the stencil, gild and burnish, clearcoat, and either hard outline or screen the shade/outline whatever else. when you gild directly onto the paint, it's referred to as a "traditional" application.

With the Edge, we can gild onto vinyl itself, print, coat and finish the lettering just like any other decal, and it can be shipped out to be installed by the customer, or sign company doing the graphics install. Then you get genuine hand gilded/burnished gold leaf lettering (and striping) that's easy to apply. looks much better as opposed to relying on the random swirled premade stuff like from Leo or SG. Graphics with hand burled letters where the burnish is scaled and centered according the to the lettering is WAY better. Can also do the emblems and seals.

 

[Gino]

lol. I think you misunderstood. You cut a stencil, apply to the truck, hand size the area, remove the stencil, gild and burnish, clearcoat, and either hard outline or screen the shade/outline whatever else. when you gild directly onto the paint, it's referred to as a "traditional" application.

With the Edge, we can gild onto vinyl itself, print, coat and finish the lettering just like any other decal, and it can be shipped out to be installed by the customer, or sign company doing the graphics install. Then you get genuine hand gilded/burnished gold leaf lettering (and striping) that's easy to apply. looks much better as opposed to relying on the random swirled premade stuff like from Leo or SG. Graphics with hand burled letters where the burnish is scaled and centered according the to the lettering is WAY better. Can also do the emblems and seals.

Okay, the traditional I know and the other effects, too. However, this bit about gilding to vinyl and running though the Edge, I'd be most happy if you could post a few stages/pictures of your doing that. We don't have a thermal printer anymore, but the technique is still not quite sinking in. I mean, I can understand it, but I just can't picture it working successfully the way I'm figuring it. I agree on the hand turned.... heck, I don't even like to use a drill, but sometimes have resorted to that instead of twirling it. My thumbs get tired much faster as I get older.

​

 

[signmeup]

How will your customer determine what carat gold you applied to his truck? I'm guessing it would be quite a difficult task to separate 22 cart from 23 carat gold... even with sophisticated a lab.

I'm not suggesting you cheat him but how the heck will he know what you used?

BTW... I use 24 carat gold from Wrights of Lymm.

 

[signage]

With the Edge, we can gild onto vinyl itself, print, coat and finish the lettering just like any other decal, and it can be shipped out to be installed by the customer, or sign company doing the graphics install.

I would like to see this process also if you don't mind posting. TIA

 

[natedawg9640]

How will your customer determine what carat gold you applied to his truck? I'm guessing it would be quite a difficult task to separate 22 cart from 23 carat gold... even with sophisticated a lab.

I'm not suggesting you cheat him but how the heck will he know what you used?

BTW... I use 24 carat gold from Wrights of Lymm.

Hand laid 23k leaf looks 100% different than 22k vapor flashed sign gold. Not even comparable. Also, when purchasing a stock printable roll of leaf from LEO for example, #1, you waste a lot of leaf and expense on gold that falls outside the letter area and #2, the swirl is one size and ends up being randomly scattered across the letters.

Without divulging too much of our process without the boss's consent basically you make yourself a registration point to register all subsequent prints off of. Print your layout but don't cut it. Take the vinyl off the printer and size/gild/tint/coat like you would on the truck but on the vinyl. Register it on the printer, print the layout again to trap and outline the edge where the size was brushed on and gilded, and finish it like an other print. Now, that being said there are some ins and outs and steps to take to avoid certain problems... but you get the jist of it I hope. The striping is a different case. we've had special machines built that stripe the size down, then we gild and a tool mechanically swirls the strip to ensure it's consistent throughout, we then stripe the edges with paint and then we have a custom made cutter that cuts the batch apart into individual stripes. 23k with black borders (or custom colored) sent out in 18' rolls ready to apply.

Also do the same with 12k white gold and a few other leafs per order. Double gilded (2tone gold) emblems and prismatic burnishes are a different animal.

 

[signmeup]

Here is the link to the company I mentioned earlier. http://www.stonehouses.co.uk/product_desc.php?id=10

23 carat gold is $25 a book. I use 24 carat double thick which sells for $35 a book. These prices are for a single book. If you use a lot of gold you can get a discount on larger quantities.

As I recall gold is a lot more from the various US suppliers.

 

[pinhead3616]

natedawg

natdawg very interesting you obviously know your gold leaf man
have you ever tried this with a roland printer or only an edge?

 

[jfiscus]

How will your customer determine what carat gold you applied to his truck? I'm guessing it would be quite a difficult task to separate 22 cart from 23 carat gold... even with sophisticated a lab.

I'm not suggesting you cheat him but how the heck will he know what you used?

BTW... I use 24 carat gold from Wrights of Lymm.

After looking at their other existing truck we are taking on a trade-in it is Leo's.
Most of the local dept's that have 23k are using Leo's around here. I was just surprised that I'd never heard of anyone else.

I'll let you all know in a YEAR how it goes when the new truck is completed and ready for installation, lol!

 

[Joe Diaz]

Okay this may not be a popular opinion amongst some on here. But consider this: I realize they requested 23 Carat, however talk to your client about whether or not they are going to care for their gold leaf lettering. We made the mistake years ago of gilding all our local fire trucks, before anyone asks, yes, we even properly cleared over our work.

But our fireman are rough on these trucks. If it's a small town like ours without much excitement. These guys will fill their time by cleaning the trucks several times a week. They will scrub down their trucks with cleaners, brushes and you name it and it will quickly take a toll on real gold leaf. If it's a show truck... that's one thing. If they know how to take care of the gold leaf... that's another.

But take the time to talk to them about those things. In some cases something like Sign Gold can be a better option, even if it isn't 23 Carat and even if it isn't quite as brilliant. It certainly is cheaper and easier to repair when the time comes. Just keep in mind these are work trucks.

 

[jfiscus]

Okay this may not be a popular opinion amongst some on here. But consider this: I realize they requested 23 Carat, however talk to your client about whether or not they are going to care for their gold leaf lettering. We made the mistake years ago of gilding all our local fire trucks, before anyone asks, yes, we even properly cleared over our work.

But our fireman are rough on these trucks. If it's a small town like ours without much excitement. These guys will fill their time by cleaning the trucks several times a week. They will scrub down their trucks with cleaners, brushes and you name it and it will quickly take a toll on real gold leaf. If it's a show truck... that's one thing. If they know how to take care of the gold leaf... that's another.

But take the time to talk to them about those things. In some cases something like Sign Gold can be a better option, even if it isn't 23 Carat and even if it isn't quite as brilliant. It certainly is cheaper and easier to repair when the time comes. Just keep in mind these are work trucks.

This is a new aerial for the local airport, it will probably never see any actual use besides training days... it's a "just in case" truck.

 

[natedawg9640]

Okay this may not be a popular opinion amongst some on here. But consider this: I realize they requested 23 Carat, however talk to your client about whether or not they are going to care for their gold leaf lettering. We made the mistake years ago of gilding all our local fire trucks, before anyone asks, yes, we even properly cleared over our work.

But our fireman are rough on these trucks. If it's a small town like ours without much excitement. These guys will fill their time by cleaning the trucks several times a week. They will scrub down their trucks with cleaners, brushes and you name it and it will quickly take a toll on real gold leaf. If it's a show truck... that's one thing. If they know how to take care of the gold leaf... that's another.

But take the time to talk to them about those things. In some cases something like Sign Gold can be a better option, even if it isn't 23 Carat and even if it isn't quite as brilliant. It certainly is cheaper and easier to repair when the time comes. Just keep in mind these are work trucks.

Sounds to me like you should have discussed care and upkeep with them.

I may be a little bias regarding this for more reasons that the fact that genuine laid leaf is the lifeblood of the company i work at. I have numerous family members who are firefighters, and there is a lot to be said about the pride and comradery encompassing the trade. It's not just a job to most firefighters, it's a way of life, and one whos history is highly regarded. Genuine gold leaf graphics are part of that history. We are trying to keep a tradition alive and far too often are people opting for inferior simulated options. They don't look as good, they don't last as long, they dont instill the same amount of pride or nostalgic value. I implore you all to not just talk customers into taking simulated stuff just cause you can do it yourself, or it's cheaper. Even we have a dealer network and sell for resale so it's not like you can't deliver genuine gold even if you don't have the resources personally. The fire dept and firefighters will appreciate it.

There's no replacement for hand burnishing, hand painting, etc. No random pattern pre-made material is gonna look as nice. Some of the metalized engine turned material commonly used these days is only rated for 3 years outdoor, IF it even sticks to the truck after the first wash. This is a worthy investment on the departments part? No. I've seen some 'smart' gold applications fail miserably as they de-laminate, and shrink. not to mention less than optimal gold leaf full of flaws. Take care of your customers, especially fire fighters. They put your house out when it's on fire.