2nd Surface Prints

[Poohster2008]

Those of you who print on clear adhesive and back it with paint or vinyl have you had any problems with them lasting in the field? Ive just had a couple come back where the double faced tape had pulled the print from the plex but seems to be more by force than the weight of the sign.
Also found out using silicone is a very bad idea when installing and assembling to any kind of backer! Just trying to see what i can learn from your experiences.
Thanks!

 

[oakcitysigns]

I've done a few of these, and something doesn't sound right... I'm confused by your mention of silicone or tape. The best way, is to print reverse image on clear, and then laminate with white vinyl. This way the finished product is a simple decal that is viewable from the outside of your glass/plex, etc.

 

[Bigdawg]

I'm not really understanding your process either. We do like oakcitysigns said.

 

[Gino]

Welcome from PA............................

 

[Poohster2008]

To clarify...

i was referring to some signs we used a silicone adhesive to assist 3M DF tape and when installing to a wall or aluminum backer. This turned out to be a bad idea! The silicone waits for about six months and then begins to powerfully contract bringing the print with it and separating it form the plex. So what you see from the front are huge gaps and bubbles from all this. Anyone else made this mistake? We now resort to just 3M and i am praying this is enough and wont have signs coming back on down the road as well.

 

[visualeyez]

I would be VERY interested in hearing a more detailed explanation of how (and with what materials) you manufacture these signs, and how they are installed. Only then can we tell you just exactly you are doing wrong.
Personally, I have never printed on "clear adhesive" or backed with "paint". Second surface means that the graphic is installed on the back of the panel, requiring a mirror image of the graphic to be printed, and sometimes double-printed. Then you apply a white layer of vinyl of the proper transparency to allow a look as similar as possible when backlit or frontlit. This finised panel should now slide directly into the side of the box it was manufactured to be installed in.

 

[Sign Works]

I believe he is refering to sub-surface backpainted acrylic signs/plaques. I have done these for years, provides an elegent look and prevents kids from picking off vinyl. Clear acrylic with mirror image cut vinyl or digital prints on clear vinyl applied to backside of acrylic then back painted (bulletin enamel), after paint is dry I always apply a layer of opaque vinyl over the paint, I mount these with foam tape, VHB tape and or Silicone and have never had a problem with then failing.

 

[iSign]

I believe he is refering to sub-surface backpainted acrylic signs/plaques. I have done these for years, provides an elegent look and prevents kids from picking off vinyl. Clear acrylic with mirror image cut vinyl or digital prints on clear vinyl applied to backside of acrylic then back painted (bulletin enamel), after paint is dry I always apply a layer of opaque vinyl over the paint, I mount these with foam tape, VHB tape and or Silicone and have never had a problem with then failing.

I also read the original post the same way sign works did... and his reply is the same I would have typed. I also have done exactly what he said many many times with no problems. When using paint, I did learn the hard way & had VHB tape shrink enough to pull up a bit of paint around where the tape was shrinking. now we cover the paint with vinyl. On digital prints, reverse-printed on clear & laminated with 2mil white vinyl, I have trusted the white vinyl to be enough protection against the adhesives. Sounds like this wasn't sufficient for poohster... not sure why though.

 

[Poohster2008]

2nd Srurface

I believe he is refering to sub-surface backpainted acrylic signs/plaques. I have done these for years, provides an elegent look and prevents kids from picking off vinyl. Clear acrylic with mirror image cut vinyl or digital prints on clear vinyl applied to backside of acrylic then back painted (bulletin enamel), after paint is dry I always apply a layer of opaque vinyl over the paint, I mount these with foam tape, VHB tape and or Silicone and have never had a problem with then failing.

Correct!
This is the type of sign we produce in large volumes. I posted this to get a consensus on what you have done to assist or assure they are the most durable once hanging in the field. Also, to get feedback on how the types of signs have failed.
I print a mirrored image on a Roland CCVP (clear adhesive) then apply that to the backside of non-glare plex. They do provide a very durable sign with a higher perceived value.
Through my experience so far when they fail it has just been by way of the DF tape or adhesive used to adhere the imaged panel to a backer or wall once installed. Simply put the sign adhesive on the CCVP is pulled from the backside of the plex creating viods or pockets seen from the face of the sign. Two ways this has happened to me in the past are the use of silicone which waits about 6 months then begins to contract (powerfully) and pulls the print. The other is not applying enough DF tape to a sign and essentially not distrubuting the weight of the sign across enough surface area of the panel. This causes too much stress in the areas that have the tape which then delaminates the print from the sign face.
I hope this helps explain it all. I am trying to give my boss some confidence that more signs dont keep coming back for fixn.
thanks guys!

 

[sw1]

Poohster2008,

Have you found a solution to your 2nd surface delamination problem? I'm having similar issues. I've tried super glue (bad idea) and banner tape to mount the print to another piece of acrylic.

 

[iSign]

Poohster2008,

Have you found a solution to your 2nd surface delamination problem? I'm having similar issues. I've tried super glue (bad idea) and banner tape to mount the print to another piece of acrylic.

welcome from PA .............................