3 Sign Shops Closed

[Johnny Best]

I have heard this dicussion on "to much work, raise your prices" etc. Do not think you are going to win the Nobel prize on economics with that form of businrss. It gets a little more complicated than that. Sometimes you have a ton of work and other times you are slow.It also means your prices will flucuate. Just enjoy yourself while you can because life is short and it moves at a rabid pace.

 

[gnubler]

So what do you do if you aren't motivated by money? I can't be the only one here...

I'm the same way. Once I hit my sales goal for the month I don't really care about anything else, it's just 'bonus' work and I can choose to do it or not. My main motivation is the absolute least amount of human interaction possible. When I've had enough, it's enough.

Stacey - are you able to just turn people down? Say you're not taking any new customers or jobs in until after the holidays. You can be polite about it.
Lots of the tradesmen around here are like that, builders and electricians already booked for the year by March. One of my customers had a voicemail message saying they were booked out until XX date and to please call back then.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

So what do you do if you aren't motivated by money? I can't be the only one here that gets their motivation from winning over new customers, the challenge of a new job or tweaking how our business operates. For me, I can raise prices, lower prices, make a mint or not make anything and it's all the same.

If the customer is a hot piece, I'll do the job for free

 

[gnubler]

If the customer is a hot piece, I'll do the job for free

Well, at least you won't get 'stiffed' if you're working for free.
Free sounds expensive...

 

[Gino]

He better would................................................

 

[JBurton]

Well, at least you won't get 'stiffed' if you're working for free.

Are you... I mean did you read what you typed? He's sure hoping to get stiffed in this scenario...

 

[Stacey K]

Thanks for all the replies everyone!

Yes, I have been turning people away. Any "person" coming in gets turned away by my minimum - two yesterday. I tell them it's temporary during busy periods. I've got smaller-medium stuff pushed out a couple weeks.

So just this morning I had a small business come in with 2 vans to letter, new customer. I just had another new customer come in with decals for 3 vehicles (they install them). No estimates, just get them scheduled.

I don't think anyone cares at this point how much money I charge they just want the stuff done. So now I'm booked through December with one vehicle per week (sometimes 2 depending on the job size) and I will backfill with 2-3 days of larger work and leave one day open for mistakes or time off or smaller stuff.

I guess at least I have a schedule now which I didn't have when I posted this - that's how fast I got booked up LOL I think I need to stick with a strict schedule and don't overbook. Raising prices only works until a new sign shop opens and then I can't lower them. I'm already pretty high with my vehicles to the point of I had lost some estimates, which I understand is a good thing.

 

[Zendavor Signs]

I have heard this dicussion on "to much work, raise your prices" etc. Do not think you are going to win the Nobel prize on economics with that form of businrss. It gets a little more complicated than that. Sometimes you have a ton of work and other times you are slow.It also means your prices will flucuate. Just enjoy yourself while you can because life is short and it moves at a rabid pace.

This is good advice. You definitely have to be careful about raising your prices too much. You know your market prices and what is appropriate. Having a mountain of work is a blessing and a curse. A friend of mine joked with me recently (he also runs a small contractor business) about the “sweet spot” in workload. Enough to be busy, but not so much that we can’t be responsive, etc. It is difficult to achieve. Being transparent with your customers is key, as well as setting proper boundaries for yourself (that is, not letting them tell you how to run your business). I remember a phase a couple years ago that was crazy busy for us. At one point, I told new customers I couldn’t even meet or discuss their project for a couple of months. It was amazing how well people responded, and how many patiently waited for me. I think we often get afraid doing this will cause some huge backlash.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You definitely have to be careful about raising your prices too much.

It's even trickier when you have a core group of customers that keep your lights on which is probably the case for a lot of people here. I watched my friends mulch company go bankrupt after they lost Home Depot over a penny per bag. They had it made before that.

 

[rossmosh]

Stacey and I chatted about this topic a bit recently (private message). Lately I've been wondering why I'm even doing this, and if it's worth all the energy and headaches to probably end up with nothing at the end. I took over another shop that was closing, they couldn't find any buyers so it was basically dumped on me because I thought it was worth a shot. At the very end they were just giving things away...equipment, roll media, reams of paper, furnishings. No buyers for this stuff. My closest competitor has had his sign shop for sale going on three years now, almost as long as I've been in business. We met once to discuss it, but the asking price was so high it was almost comical. He must not be desperate enough because I still see it listed on Craigslist sometimes, no price reduction. I'm guessing he'll eventually just close the doors like Stacey's competitors and his customers will come my way. There's a couple other shops in my area, both owners are semi-retired and often lock their front doors and don't answer the phone.

What is it about sign shops in particular that close their doors because there's no interested buyers to take over? Yes, the customers suck, but that applies to any business. I've definitely dealt with much worse in my life.

1. Their numbers suck. I think it's changed a bit recently, but "old school" sign guys often were either artists or tradesman. They ran their business like a job. So while some made decent or even good livings, they were putting in a lot of hours to get there. A lot of people run their numbers based on their business being established 20+ years ago with prices not matching current market values because of reasons. Ultimately, you look at the numbers vs the hours worked and you say "I can find something lower risk and higher reward."

2. Owner is a still the key man in the organization. If the business revolves around the owner, it's a dangerous thing to buy. Documentation probably sucks. You're married to your business. You may not be able to replicate what the owner currently does and lose customers. It can be a real problem for people.

3. Equipment. Often businesses sell when their equipment is on their last legs. So you buy the place and you're on the hook for $30k in capital expenditures within the first year.

4. Marketing. How you sell your business and your target audience is important. A lot of these businesses are listed for stupid money based on bad numbers. You turn off potential buyers with this and then are left stale on the market for 12-36 months. Now no one wants to touch you because you've got a stink that can't be washed away.

 

[ikarasu]

I think the whole raise your price advice thing isn't an across the board thing.

If something takes you forever to do and it's low margins, that's the type of work you raise your prices on... Or better yet outsource.

It's like banners. There's a dozen shops that sell them for $2 a sqft.... I used to get a banner a day, 4x8.... $64 for a banner. To load the machine, cut, hem and grommet... It's just not worth it. But hey, $64 was $64 when I was just starting out, so I never turned it away.

Now I'm at $6 a sqft because I hate banners and it's not worth it to me. I still get the odd banner, but not like before... So it's freed up my time for more proffitable jobs... I still do banners for my regulars, I charge them less, but still way more than what the banner garage printers charge.


Raising costs to lower work is more so having the freedom to pick and do what you want, a focus on an area you specialize in, imo at least.

 

[gggraphics1]

Although I'm older than you, our stories are very similar. I was in the sign business for 30 years before I switched to just doing truck graphics for truck leasng companies. It's good, lucrative work, but I'm at a point where I also have plenty of real estate, house at the Jersey Shore and realize there's more to life than working. I could retire financially, but love what I do and it's it's tough decision. Some older Neighbors always tell me retire while you're young enough to enjoy the fruits of your labor!!

 

[visual800]

Im all about staying small and always have been. I like things to be done with less stress and people will stress you out! In my later years (the past 15) I have taken the attitude of "you will wait or you can go elsewhere!" I no longer allow customers to dictate my time schedule. I have learned that people dont NEED anything fast they WANT it fast. I dont know if its some sot of powerplay or they like the idea of "controlling " others. I will not be controlled like I once was when I started this company. I have made this comment before on this forum IF you contact me and are already in a rush Ive already decided Im not for you, you can carry your rabidness elsewhere and aggravate someone else.

Just slow down , raise those prices and have the attitude of "I dont care if I do your stuff or not"

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Im all about staying small and always have been. I like things to be done with less stress and people will stress you out! In my later years (the past 15) I have taken the attitude of "you will wait or you can go elsewhere!" I no longer allow customers to dictate my time schedule. I have learned that people dont NEED anything fast they WANT it fast. I dont know if its some sot of powerplay or they like the idea of "controlling " others. I will not be controlled like I once was when I started this company. I have made this comment before on this forum IF you contact me and are already in a rush Ive already decided Im not for you, you can carry your rabidness elsewhere and aggravate someone else.

Just slow down , raise those prices and have the attitude of "I dont care if I do your stuff or not"

I don't think it has anything to do with a power play.... I find people are rushed because they are pressured by someone else... or under the impression that they are pressured.

 

[Stacey K]

Im all about staying small and always have been. I like things to be done with less stress and people will stress you out! In my later years (the past 15) I have taken the attitude of "you will wait or you can go elsewhere!" I no longer allow customers to dictate my time schedule. I have learned that people dont NEED anything fast they WANT it fast. I dont know if its some sot of powerplay or they like the idea of "controlling " others. I will not be controlled like I once was when I started this company. I have made this comment before on this forum IF you contact me and are already in a rush Ive already decided Im not for you, you can carry your rabidness elsewhere and aggravate someone else.

Just slow down , raise those prices and have the attitude of "I dont care if I do your stuff or not"

Yes - I don't want to add to my stress and I'm not sure I want to be a boss, I'm already a landlord since I was 19 and that's like babysitting. Dealing with people gets old after a while.

Over the weekend one of my renters had a squirrel in the basement that chewed it's way through a basement wood thing by the dryer vent to get in - not exactly sure but that's what we think. Can't put poison out because she has kids so I had to bring 2 traps over. ALLLLLLLLLLLL weekend she messaged me, multiple times with long paragraphs about squirrels. If I had to come in today and deal with someone like her after dealing with her all weekend, I would be drinking shots of whiskey by noon to numb my ears. Sunday a customer came up to me while I was eating asking about his order so that topped the weekend off LOL

I'm just going to do what I can do. I can't raise prices too much, who knows, maybe someone is in the process of buying one of the other sign shops - then it's pretty hard to lower your prices.

 

[JBurton]

I don't think it has anything to do with a power play.... I find people are rushed because they are pressured by someone else... or under the impression that they are pressured.

I have a handful of customers who definitely do it as a power play, but the vast majority are either cogs in the system or laid back enough to accept a further date than what they'd requested.

 

[Stacey K]

I think the covid lockdowns had something to do with it too. Everyone ordered from Amazon and you are used to getting stuff in two days.

 

[rydods]

I've raised my prices as an inconvenience fee for the customers that I don't like. I have a few that do a lot of business with us, but every time I see their name on the caller ID, my blood boils.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I've raised my prices as an inconvenience fee for the customers that I don't like. I have a few that do a lot of business with us, but every time I see their name on the caller ID, my blood boils.

You should make it a line item on the invoice, really let them know how you feel.

 

[Stacey K]

Does this customer get your blook boiling, check yes or no

_____yes _____no If yes, add 30%