3165RA Failing?

[dmayhew26]

Has anyone else been having this problem at all? I have used this material for quite some time now and have been having a few issues lately with the edges starting to come up. These are less than a year old and it looks like the glue just didn't stick all that well? Anyone else have this problem? Might be looking for a replacement vinyl for the cheaper decals we produce. Anyone have any results with the Arlon 4560GTX?

 

[Driving Force]

Wow, thats depressing. I have been having all sorts of problems with the Arlon and was hoping oracal was a better solution. With the arlon, the vinyl is seperating from the glue. The adhesive is on the surface just fine, but the vinyl is falling off. This is after less than 6 months. Of course I asked my rep about it and they have never heard of such a thing, must be something I am doing. Just this last week we were working on a rig that came from another state and guess what, the same problem and you could tell it was the arlon film. I know its an inexpensive film and I dont expect it to last like good stuff, but less than a year???

 

[Letterbox Mike]

Can you give more info on the failures you're seeing with the Oracal? What substrate/surface are they adhered to? Laminate? Heavy ink coverage? What kind of sun and weather exposure are they seeing? What printer were they printed on? How was the surface cleaned/prepared?

 

[Gino]

Have you had this failure with printing to the edge ??

Are all of these failures laminated or not ??

Are these on vehicles or other substrates ??

What kind of prep had you used on the failures ??

 

[dmayhew26]

Here is a good example of the type of failure I am seeing. Now that you say it most are printed all the way to the edge of the film. These are contour cut graphics printed to the edge. Most I would say are in the sun a lot and I have seen them fail now on rear truck windows more than anything else. I laminated everything with 210 lam.

 

[jgolo]

How much time after printing until the graphic was cut?

 

[Typestries]

I just changed an 3165RA failure this weekend. Solvent print with 1/4" white beyond the ink. Cured for 24 hours pre-lamination. Applied to glass which was spotless in 60° temps. Just a few weeks later cust said edges were lifting. I was convinced he was FOS so I had him come in. It was a few weeks more till he made it in. They curled to about 1" from the edge. Get this when I pulled them off they pulled off like static cling. Odd for sure. Replaced the logos with 3651 which we have been using since it was released 10 or so years ago with nary a failure. I wont be using 3165RA again for a while for sure.


thanks

-Rick

 

[Rydaddy]

I just changed an 3165RA failure this weekend. Solvent print with 1/4" white beyond the ink. Cured for 24 hours pre-lamination. Applied to glass which was spotless in 60° temps. Just a few weeks later cust said edges were lifting. I was convinced he was FOS so I had him come in. It was a few weeks more till he made it in. They curled to about 1" from the edge. Get this when I pulled them off they pulled off like static cling. Odd for sure. Replaced the logos with 3651 which we have been using since it was released 10 or so years ago with nary a failure. I wont be using 3165RA again for a while for sure.


thanks

-Rick

Wow, that pretty much summed up all the questions I was going to ask him before I read that. Sounds like Oracal has some bad 3165ra out there. I will say that when we use to use it, it was strictly for short-term stuff.

 

[PRS Bryan]

Thought I would drag up this old thread as I am experiencing similar issues as the OP. The decals produced out of 3165RA are curling at the edges. The remaining adhesive is getting wet and the decals will come off with little effort, leaving no residue.

On to the specifics, if I forget anything let me know.

Small black decals, approximately 6”x6”

They are printed on Oracal 3165RA, gassed out for 24 hours. Laminated with Oracal 210 then cut.

Printer is a Roland VS-540 and printed to the edge of the graphic with average ink coverage of Roland ink.

They were applied outdoors to a black gas pump (painted steel) with a mild texture. The surface was cleaned with lacquer thinner. I did not personally apply these decals but these were the instructions given to the crew.

The curling seems to be worse on graphics that ware facing north vs. south. Finally the failure rate seems to be random and at approximately 33%.

I have personally replaced some of the graphics with new ones made from IJ-35c. They are fine but have only been there a few days

Anybody have a similar issue with 3165 recently?

 

[bikecomedy]

Reading through all related threads to this issue (curling edges before or after installation) looking for the solution.

I am currently trying not using heat for the laminate and it seems to be stopping the curled edges. Is this a rookie move, using heat on everything and it only works for some things?

Used Oracal 3165RA, no out gassing, using L26500. Laminated with Oracal 210 no heat.

 

[HulkSmash]

Reading through all related threads to this issue (curling edges before or after installation) looking for the solution.

I am currently trying not using heat for the laminate and it seems to be stopping the curled edges. Is this a rookie move, using heat on everything and it only works for some things?

Used Oracal 3165RA, no out gassing, using L26500. Laminated with Oracal 210 no heat.

View attachment 94312 View attachment 94313

You mean not using the heat assist on the lamination?

 

[bikecomedy]

I mean, that if I do not use heat on the lamination the edges do not curl. If I do use heat it curls. I hope that's clear enough.

 

[bikecomedy]

Thanks Pat I'll try adjusting tensions too.

 

[bikecomedy]

Thanks Pat... The one in the picture was not curling until after I cut it out. It also was not curling on the uncut edges.

 

[a77]

If you are laminating and find certain things still want to curl, ease up on the tension - that should help a little but won't allow you to laminate soaked prints with a bleed and cut them without experiencing shrinkage and curling.

And in regards to the OP's issues - I've never used 3165RA but have found 3651 to shrink A TON with heavy coverage. I don't use ora-anyting for much anymore, except their 210 gloss laminate.

Awesome tip about the over tension, I was getting some of the edges lifting off the table and didn't know if it had something to do with pressure, but now I'm going to reduce the tension.

Was hoping to make 3651 my go to vinyl.. but scared now. With heavy coverage did you see quick shrinkage or is it something I won't know about until my customer comes back in a month or two?

Rethinking my choice to go with oracal, what you using now Pat?

Back to the OP.. I wonder if you asked Oracal what would they say? Just go with 3551 I guess?