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360 Red Printing Question

JoshLoring

New Member
I got some prints that were straight from 3M the other day and the red was phenomenal. Upon inspecting it up close I noticed that there was some black noise added to the red (not any other colors). It wasn't a solid red up close but the added black noise gave it the appearance of s deep red from afar.
Anyone have a seamless pattern like this to use for printing reds? Or.. another option for printing deep reds with the 360?
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
Good luck, I assume it was done with a custom profile that adds a certain percentage of black to the red colors. Did you send them the test file? I would see what the color values were for that area, possibly 0/100/100/25? that might result in a deep red.

Our 360 printed pretty decent reds when we had it, it just couldn't print the same color twice.
 

myront

Dammit, make it faster!!
We've found it very difficult to get a good red with the 360. We're using CMYK and light magenta/light cyan. Someone suggested to create a profile that only uses CMYK and we should get better reds but I can't convince my print guy to try anything. Another suggestion was to decrease the amount of Optimizer as our reds seem to have a milky tint to them making them appear orange. Again, can't convince my print guy to try either suggestions.
 

dypinc

New Member
I got some prints that were straight from 3M the other day and the red was phenomenal. Upon inspecting it up close I noticed that there was some black noise added to the red (not any other colors). It wasn't a solid red up close but the added black noise gave it the appearance of s deep red from afar.
Anyone have a seamless pattern like this to use for printing reds? Or.. another option for printing deep reds with the 360?


A good custom created profile with black settings set to add more black in the shadows is a must for dark reds. Also I found for best reds with 3M IJ180 it is best to use 170% Ink density but you also have to be able to linearization with per ink channel limiting in the RIP to get the best reds. And yes don't set optimizer any higher than need be. Try 8 to 10.

Pantone C 185 is the most challenging on the 360 but C 186 and darker I don't have any problems with.
 

jfiscus

Rap Master
We've found it very difficult to get a good red with the 360. We're using CMYK and light magenta/light cyan. Someone suggested to create a profile that only uses CMYK and we should get better reds but I can't convince my print guy to try anything. Another suggestion was to decrease the amount of Optimizer as our reds seem to have a milky tint to them making them appear orange. Again, can't convince my print guy to try either suggestions.
I could get GREAT reds using 16 pass, but using lower pass settings dulled out the reds a lot.
 

Robert Gruner

New Member
Josh,

First things first... What 3M media? What PS RIP?

dyp...What PS RIP do you use?

Myron...You would really be much happier with your HP Latex output if your "print guy" would sign up and take HP's Latex Academy; or, at the very least, would try some of these ideas posted?
 

dypinc

New Member
Josh,

dyp...What PS RIP do you use?

Colorgate and Fiery XF.

Fiery Color Profiler has more controls and seems to create better profiles. XF has to many bugs so I have been using ColorGate the most of late. I am getting some pretty good profiles out of Colorgate as well. If I don't do in RIP linearization and create just the profiles with FCP on top of the L360 calibration I can use those FCP profiles in ColorGate. Not sure you want to use the L360 calibration with backlit SAV though. The techs will tell you that shouldn't be available and not to use it. If I understand it correctly it is not available for backlit on the L560.

Anyway if you start to punch up the ink density and don't use linearization and back the ink limits down in the RIP to where they should be you are going to have problems. Why the Cyan density is so high on the L360 compared to the other colors has been a real puzzle to me. That I believe is one of the problems of why it is so difficult to achieve good reds (especially the brighter ones). Anyway if you know what your doing with linearization and per channel ink limits and the best media preset ink density for your selected media, that is just enough so the that the RIP backs the ink down a little especially the Magenta and maybe the Yellow you can get some awesome reds. Don't be alarmed at how far the cyan gets backed down. Just let it do its thing. This is the same way we had to deal with the 250 and 260 models, but you just can't control everything with the L360, but I try to control as much of it as I can at least for the color critical job where the highest gamut is desirable.

O yea I wouldn't go below 12pass for this kind of output anyhow which you can't if you go to a higher than 120% density. jfiscus is correct about the 16 pass setting. You can also use 12 pass and slow it down with the Inter pass delay setting, which you would probably want to do anyway if you have heavy coverage with lc or lm ink because of possible ink starvation form one have one lc/lm printhead.
 

Robert Gruner

New Member
dyp,

Sounds to me like (a) you are color Savvy and (b) you know your way around your PS RIP...both of which is a plus plus for you!

I would imagine that the majority of HP Latex 360s are driven with Onyx, Caldera, and Flexi.
 

RobMerkel

New Member
We just bought a HP Latex 365 and I was struggling with the same problem, seems if you change the rendering intent in the advanced options of the colour management tab (in Flexi) to saturation rather than perceptual and use higher pass values it really helps deepen the reds. It's a bit of a brute force fix because it changes all the other colours as well but it works on both vector and raster files.
 
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