3M 8508 Laminate Shrinking... Tired of the Manufacturer Blaming us

[MikePro]

well whatever it is... its NOT a cast vinyl for a calendared price. (per OP, shrinking)
....if anything, its a "cast vinyl" with calendared-vinyl performance.

 

[Nuagedesigns]

Just curious......Have you laminated any unprinted vinyl with the same laminate to see if this has the same effects? Just to rule out the cause being the ink or printing process.

I had a 3M Issue a few years ago with large order of reflective vinyl with comply that they refused to do anything with, vinyl began to separate from adhesive on a fleet of 75+ cars that had not eve been put into service that were all inside for 8 weeks with failure. It was a nightmare and cost a fortune out of pocket to repair since the cars were now 2 states away rather than in state when we originally lettered the cars.

Best of Luck

I too can not speak enough about how much our shop loves IOM material as well we use it daily.

 

[player]

Just curious......Have you laminated any unprinted vinyl with the same laminate to see if this has the same effects? Just to rule out the cause being the ink or printing process.

I had a 3M Issue a few years ago with large order of reflective vinyl with comply that they refused to do anything with, vinyl began to separate from adhesive on a fleet of 75+ cars that had not eve been put into service that were all inside for 8 weeks with failure. It was a nightmare and cost a fortune out of pocket to repair since the cars were now 2 states away rather than in state when we originally lettered the cars.

Best of Luck

I too can not speak enough about how much our shop loves IOM material as well we use it daily.

What the hell did you do? Sounds like a life changing experience.

 

[3M Graphics]

2CT Media,
Could you DM me your contact information so we can have tech service give you a call and understand more about what is happening here?

Thanks,
Sam

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Sent!

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Just curious......Have you laminated any unprinted vinyl with the same laminate to see if this has the same effects? Just to rule out the cause being the ink or printing process.

I had a 3M Issue a few years ago with large order of reflective vinyl with comply that they refused to do anything with, vinyl began to separate from adhesive on a fleet of 75+ cars that had not eve been put into service that were all inside for 8 weeks with failure. It was a nightmare and cost a fortune out of pocket to repair since the cars were now 2 states away rather than in state when we originally lettered the cars.

Best of Luck

I too can not speak enough about how much our shop loves IOM material as well we use it daily.

We have done that, and its the same results, I'm compiling all of our photos for a report for one of our suppliers on this as they are trying to step up and help us on this since 3M hasn't really taken point yet. Hopefully with Sam responding maybe someone else at 3M will see things differently.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Good Luck!

 

[eahicks]

Sad that a company that is maybe 95% based on ADHESIVE products can't get their adhesive products right.

 

[Vinyldog]

8518 is my favorite Lam, but I've only used 8508 on two occasions. I used a roll many years ago and hated it, and recently sent a roll back after using only a few yards.
I use 8518, O.215 or Briteline UV

 

[PRS Bryan]

Perhaps I am just a pessimist but, I don't believe the factory warranties are worth the paper they are printed on.

In the past I had an issue with Oracal where they proceeded to blame me and my installers for the repeated failures.

They went down an extensive list of ways of "properly" printing applying the vinyl. Some where around question 15 they found a small deviance in our installation and proceeded to blame the failures on that.

Oracal had already received, and likely spent, the money paid by us and perceive the a warranty claim as a pure profit loss. They will do anything to avoid compensating the sign shop for the failure.

After all the end customer is not going to hold the manufacturer to the fire, they are going to blame the people they deal with, the sign shop.

So what did I do? Made the customer happy and accepted the loss.

I wish you luck in resolving the issue.

 

[CanuckSigns]

Perhaps I am just a pessimist but, I don't believe the factory warranties are worth the paper they are printed on.

In the past I had an issue with Oracal where they proceeded to blame me and my installers for the repeated failures.

They went down an extensive list of ways of "properly" printing applying the vinyl. Some where around question 15 they found a small deviance in our installation and proceeded to blame the failures on that.

Oracal had already received, and likely spent, the money paid by us and perceive the a warranty claim as a pure profit loss. They will do anything to avoid compensating the sign shop for the failure.

After all the end customer is not going to hold the manufacturer to the fire, they are going to blame the people they deal with, the sign shop.

So what did I do? Made the customer happy and accepted the loss.

I wish you luck in resolving the issue.

I agree 100%, pretty much every warantee is worthless, in the end it comes down to which company has more money to fight this, 3M or you? Don't forget that if they admit fault for you, they are setting a precedent and admitting fault to every person who bought that product, which opens up the door to huge $ losses.

 

[reQ]

My best supplier who honors the warranty is Suntek Films. Did commercial installation on full glass building. One window cracked within 2 days. They paid for replacement & sent new materials to do the install again.

 

[XtremeXccessories]

My best supplier who honors the warranty is Suntek Films. Did commercial installation on full glass building. One window cracked withing 2 days. They paid for replacement & sent new materials to do the install again.

Same way with Llumar. If I ever have an issue I can call my rep (who will answer day or night) and get it resolved the same day.

I've used a fair amount of 8508 but never had any issues like this. Some shrinkage, sure, but never that amount.

I hope you get it resolved.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

As far as I'm concerned I have a sour taste in my mouth from 3M up to this point. I have steered clients towards other options when the job would cause hardship if we had another failure.

I like the 3M Cast films but I worry about their products now. Instant One has been great to us and I like to support businesses that respect their clients as everything is a partnership in this world. One helps the other, our shops 3M confidence is lacking at this point.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

This is the part that really bothers me. You look at the support and respect that comes from Instant One and the aforementioned window film suppliers (neither of which I've worked with before personally), then you look at how we're treated when the "biggest" and "best" (read: most expensive) is approached with serious issues that are encountered on a regular basis. Think of when we put out a product to our customers and they come back and say "hey look, this failed". You think we turn around and ask them 500 questions only to try to put the blame on them? Chances are, if they a good customer then the answer will be no, without question. Replace the product, make the customer happy, THEN determine what happened. Guess what - those good customers are who allow you to put food on your table at the end of the day. Don't make excuses, try to find a way to weasel out of any responsibility, then turn a blind eye and pretend it's an "isolated incident".

They hide behind loopholes and exclusions of liability when it hits the fan but have no problem hiking prices on an almost monthly basis. What exactly are we paying more for? Sure as hell isn't product development and improvement.

That is very well said! Its not only about price or quality of product, its mostly about quality of service for us. This industry is growing by leaps and bounds everyday, Companies like Instant One Media and people like BigFish who know the value of their client relationship will ultimately be the ones worth working with.

Funny thing is I got a wrap job today spec'd 40C with 8508, I ended up talking them over to IOM with Avery DOL1360. I know I'm a plankton in 3M's ocean but until I see resolution I assume that product is always going to fail.

 

[player]

I was around when Avery screwed everyone in the '90's and I still won't use their materials.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Update: I was contacted by Mark from 3M who is a senior technician for 3Ms overlam division. He is going to work directly with us to examine the situation further.

He also wants to know if anyone else has experienced this and if they can provide pictures, dates, and more info so he can compare to our situation.

 

[reQ]

Frick, i will be surprised if they will even replace your materials after all

P.S. I think there will be few people with same problem if they will start diggin'

 

[SightLine]

Actually 3M likely will work with you as well as your supplier to resolve this and even make sure you get replacement media...... Had an issue about a year ago and was contacted in the same way and worked with them and they along with our supplier took good care of things. Their engineers seems genuinely interested in working out what was wrong with us.

Good luck with it! Hope they do take care of it and you get things resolved.

 

[player]

3M: "Yes. Here's a roll of vinyl. Now f*ck off and reprint, laminate and cut 100 new car wraps on your dime. Then remove and replace 100 car wraps from 4 states at your own expense as well."

Sign Guy: "Thanks 3M for all your help."

 

[reQ]

3M: "Yes. Here's a roll of vinyl. Now f*ck off and reprint, laminate and cut 100 new car wraps on your dime. Then remove and replace 100 car wraps from 4 states at your own expense as well."

Sign Guy: "Thanks 3M for all your help."