3M Dinoc install on painted surface problem

[bigben]

I've got this install of 3M Dinoc material on a painted wall. Everything have been ok for the first 1300 sqft except if we stick the material on the wall without apply too much of presure and pull it off the paint come of the wall with the material. So we needed to take extra care when install it and we had several 20ft+ long panels horizontally.

Now we got the last panel (48inX144in) and a 4inx4in bubble have been created by the paint coming of the wall. We took off the whole section, the contractor skinned and repainted the wall with the paint type recommended by 3M. We went yesterday to re-install, and just by the tension we need to install the vinyl, the paint came off. We've been able to pull of 6inX6in paint peices just with our fingers.

I know the problem is not from the material but from the paint. The contractor is asking me for a solution. I was thinking to cover the section with a 1/16 polycarbonate and stick the material over it. But again, how would we stick/screw the polycarbonate in place?

Any suggestions? Thanks.

Ben

 

[CES020]

Have someone properly paint it. My guess is they are sanding the sheetrock mud, then painted directly over that. Sanding the sheetrock produces dust, and most painters seem to just paint over that dust. If they properly do their job, and wipe the dust before PRIMING, and then painting, then the paint will stick. It's not sticking because they didn't prep the surface correctly before painting. Nothing to do with you. You could take painters tape and yank off the paint if it's done like that.

 

[bigben]

Have someone properly paint it. My guess is they are sanding the sheetrock mud, then painted directly over that. Sanding the sheetrock produces dust, and most painters seem to just paint over that dust. If they properly do their job, and wipe the dust before PRIMING, and then painting, then the paint will stick. It's not sticking because they didn't prep the surface correctly before painting. Nothing to do with you. You could take painters tape and yank off the paint if it's done like that.

I know it's a paint problem. And I did the test with masking tape and I was able to remove the paint. My problem is I can't choose another painter. I can change the paint or put somekind of a rigid substrate on the wall.

 

[SightLine]

Well then as CES said make sure the painter knows how to PROPERLY paint the wall. Prep, wipe the wall down to remove any dust, paint the wall first with PRIMER (Zissner, Kilz, etc), let that dry properly, wipe down to remove any dust again, then paint with the final paint. Then the paint should cure for at least a week or so.

3M also makes a Wall Test Kit (3M rep can get you one). That has special strips of a lot of different 3M vinyls, microfiber rag, scotchbrite pad, spring tension scale, and a rivet brush and you use the kit to determine for certain that the wall surface has proper paint adhesion and that the vinyl will properly adhere to the paint.

 

[bigben]

Great! Thank you for the info.

Could you recommend a specific primer/paint brand combo that will be ideal for this type of job? I would like to tell him to use this brand and be there on site to check if the guy paint it correctly.

 

[CES020]

Any decent primer will work, but the important thing is you're not going to be able to install it for 10 days or so, maybe longer, after it's painted. If you do, you risk having happen what's happening now. That paint needs to be totally cured before you can do that.

How long are you planning on waiting before installing it?

If they are sanding the sheetrock mud, make sure they wipe it down before priming it, to remove the dust. If they don't, you'll have the same issue.

 

[bigben]

Any decent primer will work, but the important thing is you're not going to be able to install it for 10 days or so, maybe longer, after it's painted. If you do, you risk having happen what's happening now. That paint needs to be totally cured before you can do that.

How long are you planning on waiting before installing it?

If they are sanding the sheetrock mud, make sure they wipe it down before priming it, to remove the dust. If they don't, you'll have the same issue.

On the first try, we've waited 30+ days (still had the problem) and on the second try, we've waited a bit over 10 days (this was the one we have been able to remove 6inX6in chunk of paint). If the paint guy told us that he've done it properly (but i don't have proof of it), could it be the paint/primer itself? This is why I'm asking for a specific brand/type of primer/paint.

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

I would agree you need the paint to cure before install. but with the paints these days adhesion is always an issues and paint lift is a common problem. sounds like the wall wasn't prepped by painter correct or they used a crappy primer and the paint isn't bonding to the primer. I tell people two weeks after paint. I also like to use WP-2000 for some extra adhesion, doesn't sound like the problem you are having.

 

[bigben]

I've used the wp-2000 primer. But like you've said, it's not the vinyl that is the problem. It's the paint.

 

[CES020]

You can tell when you pull the giant swatch of paint off the wall. Take your hand and run it over the sheetrock. My guess is you'll have sheetrock dust on your hand. It's one of those things you have to be aware of and when it happens you can stop in your tracks and show the right people. Because once you wipe it, the proof of the dust is gone.

I did some vinyl lettering in a retail store set to do their grand opening. I used transfer tape, light tack, to do it. I only squeegeed the letters, didn't rub the tape on the wall. Went to remove it, ripped off a huge piece of paint. The more I pulled, the more that came off. The owner was right there, I wiped my hand on it, showed him the dust, and he admitted that he painted it himself, didn't prime it, and didn't wipe the dust off before painting it.

 

[AF]

Any chance they primed the wall with PVA?