3M IJ180 Controltac alternative?

[onecomm]

Hello everyone,

I would really appreciate some help from the community.

I have been using 3M IJ180 Controltac to print and cut skins to cover outdoor sports equipment in different colours and patterns. I was advised Controltac was the standard for vinyl that can withstand the elements for at least a few years.

However, my printer is charging me ~$30 for a sheet 50 inch by 10 inch of Controltac printed and cut. We can't make an margin on this and it's been almost 6 months (I understand there's a shortage and we were hoping this would ease up).

I've since been recommended Avery 2923 by another printer which could be in better supply and cheaper. Is this a fair alternative to the Controltac?

Many thanks for your help.

 

[Gino]

Why not just up your prices accordingly ?? Anyone else experiencing product costs increasing normally passes it along, if they can't soak it up. No reason to lessen your product quality to keep costs down.

 

[onecomm]

Why not just up your prices accordingly ?? Anyone else experiencing product costs increasing normally passes it along, if they can't soak it up. No reason to lessen your product quality to keep costs down.

Hi Gino! Our printer quoted us for 7x less prior to supply shortages (Feb/March 2021). Unfortunately we're already producing at a loss when you factor in marketing costs.
We are open to moving printers as we are not convinced the costs are competitive. Thanks for your message.

 

[unclebun]

7 times less than $30? Your printer made a mistake when he first quoted it. He was working at a loss when he was doing them for that price. The vinyl costs him $1.25 per square foot. Your piece is 4.5 square feet of material used, not counting printing and cutting, it's already more than your original price of $4.28 per sheet. Refigure your pricing and charge enough for what you do to make money.

 

[Geneva Olson]

7 times less than $30? Your printer made a mistake when he first quoted it. He was working at a loss when he was doing them for that price. The vinyl costs him $1.25 per square foot. Your piece is 4.5 square feet of material used, not counting printing and cutting, it's already more than your original price of $4.28 per sheet. Refigure your pricing and charge enough for what you do to make money.

50 inches x 10 inches is 3.5 square feet...

 

[unclebun]

7 times less than $30? Your printer made a mistake when he first quoted it. He was working at a loss when he was doing them for that price. The vinyl costs him $1.25 per square foot. Your piece is 4.5 square feet of material used, not counting printing and cutting, it's already more than your original price of $4.28 per sheet.

50 inches x 10 inches is 3.5 square feet...

You can get something in the other 4 inches of the vinyl, and print and contour cut it with no leader or trailer? I am talking about how much material is used to make it and how much that material costs.

 

[onecomm]

We are highly economical with our use of vinyl. I don't want to get too deep into costs. I'd really like to know if Avery 2923 is a worthwhile alternative to 3M Controltac IJ180.

 

[Dan360]

2923 is calendared, we use it as our everyday vinyl after switching from IJ35.

If you're looking for an alternative to 180 and keeping it cast, we've used Avery 1105 and Arlon SLX without issue.

Depending on the application of the skins, 40c might be a better alternative.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Hello everyone,

I would really appreciate some help from the community.

I have been using 3M IJ180 Controltac to print and cut skins to cover outdoor sports equipment in different colours and patterns. I was advised Controltac was the standard for vinyl that can withstand the elements for at least a few years.

However, my printer is charging me ~$30 for a sheet 50 inch by 10 inch of Controltac printed and cut. We can't make an margin on this and it's been almost 6 months (I understand there's a shortage and we were hoping this would ease up).

I've since been recommended Avery 2923 by another printer which could be in better supply and cheaper. Is this a fair alternative to the Controltac?

Many thanks for your help.

We are highly economical with our use of vinyl. I don't want to get too deep into costs. I'd really like to know if Avery 2923 is a worthwhile alternative to 3M Controltac IJ180.

Of course there are other great alternatives to 3m. you are paying for a name with 3m.
I use Arlon for everything and it's a great product. I use Arlon SLX for cast material and Arlon 510 for calendared. great product.

 

[Geneva Olson]

You can get something in the other 4 inches of the vinyl, and print and contour cut it with no leader or trailer? I am talking about how much material is used to make it and how much that material costs.

you mean the other foot?

 

[Zendavor Signs]

Unclebun is rounding up to 1 linear foot x 4.5ft wide - that is a pretty industry standard way of figuring square footage

 

[a77]

Read the specs yourself - it's all freely available online.

 

[unclebun]

The Avery 2923 is a decent vinyl, but it's not anywhere near the same kind of material that the 180C is. It's a calendared vinyl whereas the 180C is cast. That means it's thicker, stiffer, less conformable, and less dimensionally stable (it shrinks and pulls back from being stretched). It has a manufacturer state life of 5 years vs. the 10 years of the 180C. It's also a matte finish material.
So if your products don't require actual wrapping but are flat or with simple (no compound) curves, and you don't need durability or a gloss finish, you can probably switch to the 2923.

As has been mentioned, there are other brands of cast materials out there, which can lower the cost of the vinyl to roughly 90 cents per square foot. But nothing like the 40 cents per square foot of the calendared material (and there are cheaper ones than that if you want to go lower). But a lot of that is going to depend on what your vendor wants to stock.

 

[Geneva Olson]

Unclebun is rounding up to 1 linear foot x 4.5ft wide - that is a pretty industry standard way of figuring square footage

So, I think I'm a little confused on the "math" portion of this exercise. so, techinically it's 3.5 sf but then you ADD a foot to that and get 4.5 sf? which is totally a creative algebra equation here.

 

[Gino]

They aren't even close.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

You're too cheap. There's really no 2 ways to cut it. If you're wasting labor hours on eeking out every square inch of your material then that should be profit, not a way to cut your prices.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Of course there are other great alternatives to 3m. you are paying for a name with 3m.

I don't really agree with that. There have been exceptions but generally you get a consistent solid product with 3m. Their roll widths always seem to spot on so there's no tail of laminate hanging off the roll. Cuts are clean, backing on the print material doesn't absorb humidity like some others do, the rolls don't come telescoped out, it prints good and it's easy to work with. With tapes, adhesives and even sandpaper I have never been disappointed and that stuff generally performs better than any other brand. It's not my go to for vinyl but I think you get what you pay for with 3m.

 

[Scotchbrite]

Hello everyone,

I would really appreciate some help from the community.

I have been using 3M IJ180 Controltac to print and cut skins to cover outdoor sports equipment in different colours and patterns. I was advised Controltac was the standard for vinyl that can withstand the elements for at least a few years.

However, my printer is charging me ~$30 for a sheet 50 inch by 10 inch of Controltac printed and cut. We can't make an margin on this and it's been almost 6 months (I understand there's a shortage and we were hoping this would ease up).

I've since been recommended Avery 2923 by another printer which could be in better supply and cheaper. Is this a fair alternative to the Controltac?

Many thanks for your help.

The 3M IJ180 and Avery 2923 are not apples to apples comparisons. You really need to look at your application and determine if using the Avery 2923 will meet your needs. Is the shorter life and limited conformability going to work for you scenario?

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

So, I think I'm a little confused on the "math" portion of this exercise. so, techinically it's 3.5 sf but then you ADD a foot to that and get 4.5 sf? which is totally a creative algebra equation here.

It's not creative algebra, they are rounding up the usable area. the exact area is 3.47sqft, but you are forced to use the full width (assuming 54") and most printers have at least a 2" leader or tail rounding things out to 12" x 54" of material used minimum. Or is the expectation now that wholesale print providers are supposed to eat the cost of the waste your job has created.

To the OP, your material comparison is not the same... you are comparing a mule to a Ferrari. The Avery Product is a medium-term calendared product vs a long-term wrapping cast. If going every you need 1105 or Arlon would be SLX+.

 

[Geneva Olson]

It's not creative algebra, they are rounding up the usable area. the exact area is 3.47sqft, but you are forced to use the full width (assuming 54") and most printers have at least a 2" leader or tail rounding things out to 12" x 54" of material used minimum. Or is the expectation now that wholesale print providers are supposed to eat the cost of the waste your job has created.

To the OP, your material comparison is not the same... you are comparing a mule to a Ferrari. The Avery Product is a medium-term calendared product vs a long-term wrapping cast. If going every you need 1105 or Arlon would be SLX+.

It IS creative algebra. you are multiplying to get your square footage then you are adding a linear foot to it. so the formula ends up being (length x width) +1. I understand waste for the job and always include that in my price, but adding one linear foot doesn't necessarily eat the cost of the waste. especially when you are dealing with the HP printers. We waste a full yard ..2 foot leader on the front end and a foot on the back end.

On the material, you do you. I didn't mention avery products. I mentioned arlon slx for cast and arlon 510 for calendared. I have my material and costs down to how I want them to succeed in my business. Enough said on that one.