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3m ij35c peeling off. interior latex paint. what to do?

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by nolanola, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. nolanola

    nolanola Member

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    Hello.
    INstalled a 4' x 8' print on a wall. It started peeling off two weeks after.
    The surface was cleaned with alcohol.
    What should we do?

    Should we try 111 Adhesion Promoter?
     

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  2. nolanola

    nolanola Member

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    Or maybe banner tape?
     
  3. bannertime

    bannertime "You guys do banners, right?"

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    There are a lot of threads regarding this issue. Common fixes were repaint using something more vinyl receptive, reprint with a different material after running the adhesion tests, or mount a sign panel.
     
  4. signman315

    signman315 Signmaker

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    Modern latex paints are designed to be easy to clean i.e. nothing sticks to them. This has been a problem in the industry (and a huge pain in my rear) for at least a few years now. There are a couple workarounds that have helped me out. If it's a permanent installation then use a high tack vinyl, my go to is Oracal 3105HT w/ 210 matte laminate. But the high tack will destroy the paint/wall upon removal. If damaging the wall upon removal is unacceptable then you can use a removable, cast vinyl/lam combo, my go to in that case is 3M 180 w/ 8520 matte laminate. Because cast vinyl shrinks a lot less than a calendared it's less likely to start peeling off the wall. It's the low adhesion in combination with the shrinking vinyl/lam that causes the peeling. Another option that has been recommended to me but I haven't yet tested for myself is to get a thick vinyl that's designed for walls and apply it unlaminated. The vinyl that's been recommended to me is MacTac Roodle its 6mil thick. I have a sample on hand but haven't had a chance to test it...my test will consist of getting a piece of sheetrock, painting it with the modern latex paint (low VOC paint is the hardest to stick to) and print a sample of the Roodle and test it on the painted sheetrock. I want the paint to be fresh to simulate the worst conditions possible. My test will be printed using an Eco-sol Roland (as opposed to a latex or UV printer), the solvent ink is more likely to cause curling/peeling versus latex or UV and so I want my test to simulate the worst conditions so I can really put the Roodle to the test. Using a latex or UV the inks doesn't bite into the vinyl like a solvent/eco-sol and so it causes less curling. Once I do my test I'll report back and let you know, but my hunch is that the Roodle is going to work just fine with any ink type, as long as it's unlaminated or laminated with a cast vinyl. Calendared vinyl will shrink and likely cause peeling. Hope it helps!
     
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  5. eahicks

    eahicks Very Active Member

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    Prep the wall with isopropyl alcohol and a non-paper, lint-free cloth. It will tack up the paint and vinyl will stick much better.
     
  6. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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    In my very extensive experiences in dealing with vinyl on latex paint you should forget it and go with wallpaper. No matter how much you wipe down the walls with iso alcohol the vinyl will still peel off.
     
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  7. TimToad

    TimToad Very Active Member

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    3M sells an adhesion test kit.
     
  8. particleman

    particleman Member

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    If you want something that will "just work" then use phototex. IJ35c isn't the best choice for a wall type surface.
     
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  9. nolanola

    nolanola Member

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    We will try that.
    Thank you!
     
  10. nolanola

    nolanola Member

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    What kind of wallpaper do you use?
     
  11. klingsdesigns

    klingsdesigns Active Member

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    Wouldnt 40c work better then the 35
     
  12. signman315

    signman315 Signmaker

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    might work better than 35c but being calendared and removable it's probably not going to work good enough to prevent lifting/peeling on a latex painted wall.
     
  13. Signcraft Digital

    Signcraft Digital New Member

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    +1 on the phototex, stuff works great!
     
  14. Brandon708

    Brandon708 Very Active Member

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    Did you try to heat it up to help it stick?
     
  15. Asuma01

    Asuma01 Member

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  16. Wesley Powell

    Wesley Powell Account Rep

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    The best way to determine the proper material to use would be using the 3M adhesion test kit. This should significantly help with your choice of material. If I remember correctly from the class I took, they don't typically recommend 35c, they typically say 40c, IJ180mc, or even 480mc depending on the texture of the wall. I would definitely run a few test strips from the kit first though.
     
  17. eahicks

    eahicks Very Active Member

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    Maybe try and use IJ35 instead of 35c if you want to use that type of vinyl.....although they are pretty similar, and 3M labels it as permanent adhesive. Maybe they need to rethink that designation.
    Really is best to use vinyls that are actual wall vinyls though.
     
  18. 10sacer

    10sacer Active Member

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    Your biggest issue with that particular wall is the matte/flat latex paint. Matte/flat latex sux for adhesion. If you wipe the area with alcohol you need to tape of you image area because the alcohol on matte will leave a visible wipe down area on the paint.
    You need to find out prior to choosing which vinyl to use and obviously prior to install what type of paint is on the wall, how long ago it was painted and what the expected longevity of the print is. Then you can make a better decision on what type of material to put up. If its permanent - instead of using high tac which WILL destroy the paint, paper and drywall material coming off - I would rather patch 6 or 8 small holes by using a rigid sign panel when the time does come to change it out or then you could use almost any old vinyl on top of the sign panel.
     
  19. Jean Shimp

    Jean Shimp Member

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    Is there some kind of paint that I can buy to paint the wall I want to wrap. I've been testing a sample of a print I bought from Signs365 back in Dec. 2015. It is holding up well in my test area. However I don't know exactly what kind of paint is on this wall. Rather than going with the vinyl test kit method (which is not practical if your client is located far away) or wiping the whole area with alcohol I would rather just have the wall in question painted with the right type of paint. I just need to know how to specify the correct type of paint.
     
  20. 10sacer

    10sacer Active Member

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