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3MIJ180Cv3 Is anyone else having a problem with the vinyl?

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trimitbyrich

New Member
Our shop has been using IJ180Cv3 for years and have had some problems lately with the vinyl not being re positional. It grabs a hold of the body panel and takes a great deal of pulling to pull it back up. It makes lots of bubbles in the panel. Many areas coming up with the air channels locking up underneath making bubbles we can't get rid of. We call it channel lock.

We've also noticed the backing paper comes off real hard, causing the vinyl to stretch a bit, making the install a little more challenging. We'd like to get to the bottom of the problem as we feel 3M is the best product on the market, nothing delivers to the client with as good of an impact as 3M (in our opinion of course).
 
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ol'phart

New Member
Sounds to me like your vinyl is saturated. Are you allowing enough time for your prints to gas off before you laminate them. If you laminate too soon the solvent has no way to escape except from the adhesive side of the vinyl which causes all the problems you are talking about.

Good Luck
 
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trimitbyrich

New Member
ol'phart said:
Sounds to me like your vinyl is saturated. Are you allowing enough time for your prints to gas off before you laminate them. If you laminate too soon the solvent has no way to escape except from the adhesive side of the vinyl which causes all the problems you are talking about.

Good Luck
Click to expand...

Yeah i know what youre talking about but i dont think thats it. This print was printed with a 3M profile the day before and laminated the next day.
 
danno

danno

New Member
3m had some adhesive issues awhile ago. Get the lot numbers and dates from the inside of the tube and quiz your distributor or 3m representative.
 
3M Graphics

3M Graphics

Merchant Member
Hi trimitbyrich, can we give you a call and learn more about the problem and help you try to fix it? Send a PM with the best number to reach you.
Thanks!
 
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Bosh

New Member
The "adhesive issues a while back" have been in full effect for close to a year. The experience you're describing sounds like the new normal for 180cv3 to me. I installed 180 exclusively everyday for five years- I knew what it felt like, looked like, and smelled like (literally). Then one day the adhesive was the wrong color, smelled like solvent, trapped air, left irregular glue marks under the graphic, and was generally aggressive. Since then the adhesive looks/smells different on every roll, and doesn't work like it used to.

The reason we stuck with 3M 180, knowing that there were better priced and higher performance options, was their reputation for quality control. . . now we use Avery and I love it.

I used 180 instead of Avery (customers request) for a wrap last week, and I hoped it would be back to the good old days. . .
It was like running into an ex-girlfriend- I wanted to think "Damn, she looks pretty good! Why did we break up?", but it was more like "Wow, she's really let herself go. What did I ever see in her?".
 
reQ

reQ

New Member
Installed a wrap last week, used cv3. Never noticed anything bad, but glue is VERY aggressive. When i needed to reposition the panel, oh gosh i had to pull it like crazy. Other than that, no issues. (graphics dried for 3 days before they were laminated)
 
SightLine

SightLine

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We just wrapped a bass boat with a new roll of 180CV3 and my installer noticed the very same thing. Aggressive as hell. I went out there myself and installed part of the wrap on the upper cap and it was a bear to deal with. This is worrisome for sure as we use a LOT of 180CV3 as well. I'm about to start on a couple of large wrap project which is going to use up quite a few rolls. I might have to look into something else if it is suddenly going to be this dang aggressive. I'm going to look at plain 180C with the old crosshatch pattern or another brand if I have to. If the installs are suddenly going to take 30% longer than I have an issue. That bass boat should have taken about a day and half and it took every bit of 2 full days. There are also spots where the adhesive touched itself or the boat that now do not look very good where it is applied leaving what looks like thin bubbles or lumps. Not too thrilled with how this one came out. Looks great from several feet away but up close, not so much.
 
Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
Yes it's more aggressive now.
As for the channels locking bubbles in, it's because the air an only travel in one direction from the squeegee down the channel rather than in multiple directions. That doesn't happen with the V1. The backing being difficult to remove depends on the direction you pull to a degree because you are fighting the direction of the egress channels. You are literally pulling adhesive lines out of paper channels. Because they are unidirectional as opposed to cross hatch like version 1, you are fighting long channels at a time instead of small squares.
Just order V1.
 
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Bosh

New Member
I did a fun demo for my boss to explain the issues I was having with 180cv3: I took similar sized scraps of 3M 180 and Avery 1005 and dropped them- no pressure applied, just gravity- adhesive side down onto a car hood. I leaned in and blew on the vinyl like a birthday cake- the Avery blew away like a leaf. Then I asked him to pull the 3M off. It was stuck enough to make that ugly vinyl-being-pulled-up noise.

Years back I remember being told in 3M training in St Paul that ControlTac was not just pressure sensitive, but pressure activated. And so it was. . . at the time.

I have been told on the phone and in person by 3M reps that they have never heard anyone but little-old-me in my dinky little wrap shop complain. Everyone loves it, and alternately that I should work on my technique, or better yet- "have you tried 480? You might like that".
 
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mgieske

New Member
We install IJ180cv3 roughly 60 man hours a week and have undoubtedly noticed the exact same aggressive adhesive issue over the last year as well. Unprinted white has the same problem which rules out outgassing. Definitely slows the applications down big time. It started with the 36" rolls and then it happened to the other roll widths. Hope they fix this really soon.
 
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Bosh

New Member
The problems I've had with 180cv3 over the last year are exactly like solvent saturated prints that have not been off-gassed- but we print latex (no solvent), and the unprinted white film, as mentioned, has the same issues.
 
3M Graphics

3M Graphics

Merchant Member
We'd like to get a better understanding of what you're experiencing. All of you should feel free to contact Alan Miller in our tech service so we can help you resolve these issues.
Office: 651-736-3056 or ammiller1@mmm.com
 
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CanuckSigns

Active Member
Just to make sure, you are all getting your quarterly price increases from 3M right? I would hate to see those start going downhill as well
 
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tyzero

New Member
The real kick in the groin is, the carrier sheets are thinner on both the laminate and film causing issues. So 3M reduced cost on the film manufacturing process but increase film prices every year. It's hard to tell people vinyl is a petroleum product and continually increase the price when gas prices went down.
 
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