Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A Little Much I think...

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by WildWestDesigns, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Merchant Member

    4,749
    46
    48
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    In the immortal words of Waylon Jennings "Don't You Think This Subscription* Bit Done Got Outta Hand?"

    So now we are even doing subscription for vehicles (and no, this isn't the same as a lease).

    To me, this is just taking it to another level. I stopped getting Adobe software when they went subscription and as cheap as they are, I can't even fathom subscribing to Porsche (that and the fact that until a Porsche vehicle can support a gooseneck and pull 16k, they don't do much for me).

    *Yes, I purposely changed it from "Outlaw" to "Subscription".
     
    Tags:
    • Like Like x 1
  2. RJPW

    RJPW Major Contributor

    10,101
    82
    48
    Oct 24, 2007
    Canada
    A local dealership tried to pull this off earlier this year and it fell apart before it was even launched. They were offering access to a whole fleet of sports cars like Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati, Aston Martin, Tesla etc.

    Apparently they ran into some liability issues that they just weren't able to figure out.

    Too rich for my blood, but an interesting concept nonetheless. Personally even if I could afford it, I wouldn't dish out 2k a month just to drive a Boxter....they're pretty underwhelming as far as Porsches go.
     
  3. billsines

    billsines Member

    70
    14
    8
    May 24, 2016
    Lagrange
    I HATE subscription stuff. "Here, pay me money forever with nothing to show for it." What's next, toothpaste subscriptions?
     
    • OMG / Wow! OMG / Wow! x 1
  4. Sandman

    Sandman Member

    41
    5
    8
    Jul 2, 2005
    Crystal Falls, MI
    You can blame all the thieves for this. Yes, sharing paid for fonts and software has forced companies to go the subscription route. It's either that or shut down. I didn't like it at first either since I was one that would wait two or three versions before upgrading. But I always bought my software. Hacked and cracked software was killing many companies. I have talked to a lot of sign makers who were more than willing to use illegal software, but they would have a fit if someone stole their sign designs. How are software developers suppose to pay staff and make a profit? How do you keep improving your software and adding features if people aren't going to purchase the upgrades. It's no different than you having a staff making replacement signs for customers that haven't ordered one yet, in the hopes that they will want to buy the new sign you have sitting their in your shop. I was pissed at first when Adobe went subscription, but what I pay per year isn't much more than keeping my two main programs updated with the latest features, plus I get access to their entire suite which include all their fonts plus cloud storage. So I'm learning Muse and Dreamweaver and will be adding web design to my list of services. I consider it the cost of doing business and I pay way more per month for a lot of other services that are also necessary for running a sign shop. Many of our own have brought this on ourselves.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Merchant Member

    4,749
    46
    48
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    I partly agree with this. I've always been one that believe if someone delivered a quality product, they should be compensated. That even goes for open source software that I use (which I use a lot more of nowadays then I used to).

    However, bare in mind that CC was cracked not long after rollout. I think it's easier to sell to the masses that line of thinking, but I feel that it's more about generating a consistent revenue stream, as you said yourself, you didn't upgrade as often. I would stipulate that it's more about having a constant revenue stream on mature software.

    I actually did upgrade every iteration and I actually paid full price (I didn't like how they handled the upgrade policy back in the old days, so it was worth it to me to buy outright every iteration).

    However, the subscription model means paying more for less control over what you are buying. That I don't like at all.

    Thankfully, I can use legacy software without affecting me like some. I don't get proprietary formats sent to me, even if I did, plenty of open source programs to view them (as when I get the files, most people just want me to replicate them and my process is the same regardless if it's a vector or raster file (which this is what I get 98% of the time)). If I'm creating the files, then I can use whatever I want. Not everyone has that luxury I know.

    There will always be a need for upgrades for nothing else to support newer standards and/or hardware. No way around that.

    My need to buy most of the software that I use for business is usually because of a need for newer hardware support and/or standards that people are using. Other features, such as toolsets, I use the same ones that I've been using just about since I started in this trade (some were added later, but all tools that I use now have been well established in the various software packages that I use). Mainly because I was always swapping software and these were tools that were consistent among them and provided the greatest ability of control.

    If one only uses 1 or 2 programs or if one uses the entire suite, then it's dealer choice. If you need quite a few programs, but not all, then it actually costs more over the years and that is including upgrading each version using the perpetual license method as well. Bare in mind too, one is subject to price hikes or changes in the policy and really doesn't have much recourse unless going somewhere else or start back using a legacy version. Essentially doing something else.

    You also have to remember (and this is just me), I don't like having production rigs connected to the internet. Which one has to have when using cloud services and at least a few times to verify subscription on locally installed programs that require that. I believe that does more harm then good. Not only at the individual software level, but also how MS is handling their OS now.
     
  6. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

    1,042
    28
    48
    Mar 9, 2011
    Here
    I guess we will have to create subscription signs. I suppose we will have to figure in the cost if they get stole or damaged. Just think are clients can have new updated signs every month for their monthly subscription.

    How do you think that will go over?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

    1,042
    28
    48
    Mar 9, 2011
    Here
    Production Rigs with with subscription software on MS? Disaster waiting to happen?
     
  8. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Merchant Member

    4,749
    46
    48
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    Given how MS is handling their updates now, yep. Considering one has to have the computer on the internet to validate their subscription or use their cloud services (POS seems to be a popular one), that means one has to deal with mandatory updates and one can see even with the posts on here that is no bueno for a lot of people.

    Just wait if MS makes their OS or even portions of their OS on a subscription service like they do with their Enterprise customers (not talking about Azure, but Win 10 and with the "glorious" option of getting a subscription of 365 if the mix as well).
     
  9. dypinc

    dypinc Very Active Member

    1,042
    28
    48
    Mar 9, 2011
    Here
    Luckily we only have to use MS for RIPs and can keep them locked down, preventing updates etc.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Merchant Member

    4,749
    46
    48
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    That'll work.

    I use VMs to run Windows and isolate from the outside world. Linux as a host and Windows within VMs. This allows me to run everything from Win 98 to 8.1 with little worry, just have to scan files on the Linux side before I allow them to the VMs.
     
  11. Texas_Signmaker

    Texas_Signmaker Member

    185
    43
    28
    Oct 21, 2016
    DFW
    Complete Signs in Alabama is doing this.
     
  12. SignosaurusRex

    SignosaurusRex Major Contributor

    7,996
    129
    63
    Mar 7, 2007
    Washington State
    It's just one more "turd in the rice-bowl" that pushes an old-timer over the edge and into retiring from the absurdity of the rat-race games.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. billsines

    billsines Member

    70
    14
    8
    May 24, 2016
    Lagrange
    Thing is, Illustrator is a product, NOT a business. I want to buy the product outright. If Adobe wants a continuous revenue stream, they need to make new products, not charging indefinitely for the same product.

    I can imagine that meeting a few years ago. If I was in the same boat, I would have done the same thing. But as the end user, I hate subscriptions. I want to buy the product outright.
     
  14. Joe House

    Joe House Member

    286
    41
    28
    Feb 5, 2004
    WA
    Technically, you don't buy the product outright, but rather the license to use the product - but I get what you're saying. Purchase the license to use this version of the product till forced to change for some reason - OS compatibility, client or vendor compatibility, etc. I also think it's only fair to point out that you are not paying indefinitely for the same product, Adobe is constantly pushing upgrades with the subscription model, so if you've been subscribing for long, you've gone through a couple of versions of CC without plunking down a big chunk of moola, right?
    Again, I get your point, but I think you mis-characterized a couple of things.
     
  15. papabud

    papabud Lone Wolf

    179
    30
    28
    Mar 7, 2016
    Toledo, OH
    but thats just it, not all of us need to have the latest updates. i am using cs6 and i have no issues with it. a friend of mine uses an even older version with out issue for what he does.
    so we paid once and are licensed to use the product for as long as we can.
    even newer os versions offer legacy software support so i can keep using what i have with newer os systems.
     
  16. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Merchant Member

    4,749
    46
    48
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    When Adobe offered both, I had actually priced out what I needed to get (which I would say for quite a few of us that's Design Premium). Don't confuse want with need. I actually had the Master Suite for CS 5 and CS 6. I didn't need all the programs for business, that was a want for both and I didn't pay upgrade pricing either.

    Considering Adobe was moving to a yearly release even with the perpetual license (the whole reason for that 5.5 release, as it really didn't do much otherwise), so I figured in for a yearly upgraded pricing scheme. It would take 7 yrs of upgrading every single iteration for Design Premium before paying for the perpetual license cost less then the subscription license. And again that was upgrading every single release to keep it fair. That's keeping current with everything.

    Now that assumes that prices remain constant among both platforms.

    If one needed just one or if one needed the entire suite, then subscription (at least cost wise) is better.

    I could understand just about every other point to going subscription versus perpetual with the exception of cost. More often then not, it costs more in the long run then it saves. If you also noticed, most of the time when they hock the cost benefits, the vendor rarely goes outside 3 yrs out in comparison. I know Adobe didn't at the time that I did my C/B of both.
     
  17. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Merchant Member

    4,749
    46
    48
    Sep 27, 2010
    Mid TN
    With Win 10, I wouldn't count on that. It is too easy for them to deprecate functionality without a moment's notice. Especially if you have it connected to the internet to receive updates whenever they push them on out.

    I prefer to run everything in VMs with legacy OSs as well using Linux as a host. Given that the VM software of choice that I use is open source, that also makes it more then likely I'll be able to compile that on newer OSs without much worry if I have to worry about support for older OSs in the VM software. I doubt that would happen with the software in question, but it's possible.
     
Loading...

Share This Page

Loading...