ADA Question.................................

[gnubler]

Well this post is 8 years old. That handicap person is probably still probably looking for the bathroom, I mean accessible facility.

They probably identify as someone/thing totally different now. "Differently abled"?

 

[Johnny Best]

Actually it is 37,604 you have 36,658 to catch up.
Howard Industries is a good company, high end work. Good luck on getting the job.

 

[gnubler]

My sales rep at Howard has been beyond helpful and they turn out quotes quickly. I have two pending ADA jobs right now.

 

[DieselPoweredNun]

All of the stairwell/floor sings we print at Howard have braille, including the photo-luminescent ones. I'm not sure if that is required, I just keep the printers running and as accurate as I can....lol.

I have seen lots of ADA signs made that don't follow the 1/8th inch letter spacing that signbrad mentions.

The 1/8th in letter spacing is REQUIRED to be ADA compliant, but often designers and architects don't care cause they want a particular font. We ask them to sign a waiver noting that it is not ADA compliant and print it for them.

 

[gnubler]

The drive-up ATM's have braille because a large number of visually impaired people are driven places by others (taxis, friends, family, etc.).

This car spotted, incidentally, parked at a building where I'll be installing ADA signs with braille.

 

[HarrounDesigns]

We have a somewhat new customer who has gotten a bunch of signs lately. She just paid her bill for some last week and now she's requesting some more signs. However, I'm not sure of the approach to them.

She wants a total of 3 Rest Room signs, which I know must be ADA w/braille, but these are to be signs alerting people as to wherethey are in the building, such as "[FONT=arial, sans-serif]additional restroom located on third floor[/FONT][FONT=arial, sans-serif]" and "[/FONT]ADA handicapped accessible restroom located on the second floor. So, I'm not sure if these need to be braille or not, since they are not near the bathrooms themselves. Do you think these need braille or not ??

Gino​

Of course, it's up to the interpretation of the inspector, but by definition, these are directional signs, which are not required to have tactile copy and braille on them. They must follow the requirements for visual copy, though.

Copy/paste directly from the ADA:
Signs that provide direction to or information about interior spaces and facilities must meet visual requirements but are not required to be tactile. Examples of informational signs include instructions, rules of conduct, hours of operation, and similar content. Directional signs include all types of signs that provide direction to spaces and facilities. These requirements apply only where such signs are provided.


Signs that identify permanent spaces and egress routes are required to have tactile copy and braille.

Again, from the ADA:
Tactile requirements apply to these types of signs:

• interior and exterior signs identifying permanent rooms and spaces, where provided (§216.2);
• required door labels at exit stairways, exit passageways, and exit discharge (§216.4.1);
• required labels for floor levels, car controls, and emergency communication devices at elevators (§407.2.3.1, §407.2.3.2, §407.4.7.1.1, §407.4.9); and
• rail station identification signs at entrances and platforms or boarding areas (§810.6.1).

 

[signbrad]

SignGuySteve is correct about ADA requirements for directional signs. They do not require Braille nor do they need to be tactile. Nor is a skinny letter required as on tactile signage. Letter height should be minimum 2-inch.
Some directionals are flag mounted out of normal reach, anyway. Braille would be pointless. Some are located in the middle of a long stretch of wall where a sight-impaired person might not find them or think to look for them. Braille is not forbidden on these signs. It's just not necessary.

Brad in Kansas City

 

[Milo]

You do know that there is a whole lawsuit industry looking for non compliance. Go overboard with the “compliance” and price accordingly..

 

[HarrounDesigns]

SignGuySteve is correct about ADA requirements for directional signs. They do not require Braille nor do they need to be tactile. Nor is a skinny letter required as on tactile signage. Letter height should be minimum 2-inch.
Some directionals are flag mounted out of normal reach, anyway. Braille would be pointless. Some are located in the middle of a long stretch of wall where a sight-impaired person might not find them or think to look for them. Braille is not forbidden on these signs. It's just not necessary.

Brad in Kansas City

According to the ADA, cap height for overhead signs are determined by the height of sign (vertical) and viewable distance (horizontal).

Reference ADA 703.5.5 - visual character height table. It's quite complicated.

 

[JBurton]

You do know that there is a whole lawsuit industry looking for non compliance. Go overboard with the “compliance” and price accordingly..

Sure there is. I've heard the boogeyman stories of establishments being sued, but I've also stayed in dozens of hotels with noncompliant room signage, and for whatever reasons especially during sign conventions. I make braille signs, and I tell my customers the same scary stories, but ya gotta know that if the big brands like Marriott and Holiday Inn can get away with such a tremendous amount of noncompliant signage, so will the not-necessarily-public space at a bank, business, or general institution. Hospitals on the other hand want it all in braille, guess they are bigger targets or they have a line item in every patient bill for tactile signage.

 

[gnubler]

Has anyone ever actually seen a blind/impaired person reading a Braille sign in a public space? I haven't. When I see someone blind or with a white cane, they're almost always with a seeing person.

 

[JBurton]

We've got one, that's right, one crosswalk in town that is audible for visually impaired pedestrians. Never seen any blind folk use it, but I haven't posted up watching the intersection either. I'll wager I've made at least a couple of folks suspect I was blind as I stop to inspect someone else's braille.

 

[signbrad]

FYI
Regarding the policing and enforcement of ADA compliance, it's handled in the US by the Dept of Justice. Their inspectors are few and far between. By their own admission, the Justice Dept focuses on bigger targets, like the hospitality and entertainment industries, such as hotel chains and movie theater chains. Schools and hospitals are big consumers of ADA signage as well. Even then, lawsuits are usually the result of complaints or injuries, rather than inspectors actively searching for violations. The manpower is just not available to do so.

I remember one case in our town that resulted in a big penalty. It involved a theater when a wheelchair-bound person had an altercation with a water fountain installed at an incorrect height. The subsequent inspection found a host of violations, including non-compliant signs. The cost to the theater chain was sizable.
.................

Speaking of movies, I just saw Return to Seoul with a lady that is a therapist that treats "disconnect disorders." She said the film was highly accurate and masterful in its depiction of the mental problems exhibited by the female protagonist in the story, a breakout Korean actress. Adopted children sometimes suffer from this syndrome. It's some kind of "disconnect syndrome." Sufferers find it difficult to develop lasting, loving relationships and often lack a moral compass. The film was in French and Korean with English subtitles. I rarely, almost never, see a film twice, but I would go see this two-hour film again.

Brad
off-topic in Kansas City