Adhesive for laminating

[CES020]

Any one got any tips for laminating metal to various substrates. I have several customers that are getting me to cut items for them on our router and I'm having some issues with their methods of making the laminate.

They are commonly using acrylic or a PVC as a backer with a aluminum face on them. They are using a sheets of adhesive(I don't know what product it is) and running it all through a laminator.

The problem we're running into is on smaller items, every now and then, one of the metal layers will pop off the material while cutting, meaning it wasn't stuck very well. We're using very small diameter cutters, so the cutting pressure is about as low as I can get.

I'd like to help them resolve the issue by offering alternatives, but in talking with adhesive people, they keep recommending products that essentially have to be put on and spread out. However, the working time is only about 6-9 minutes, meaning you'd have to spread it on, spread it out, and them get it lined up and them stuck together in 6-9 minutes, which I don't think will happen.

Then we have the whole concern about having "lumps" in there somewhere that won't show up until the items are cut, at which point, it will be too late. They also recommend clamping the entire thing down, and they don't have any way to clamp a 4' x 8' sheet with even pressure.

Any suggestions? Is there a better sheet adhesive that is super strong, so they don't have to go to the Lords products and deal with all that?

 

[CS-SignSupply-TT]

Just thinking, perhaps you should contact CONVEX Specialty Materials, a signs101.com advertiser. Their adhesives are extremely aggressive.

 

[signage]

For clamping 4'x8' material you would use a vacuum bag/blanket system.

 

[CES020]

Thanks guys. It's not my baby, so to speak, I'm just trying to make some recommendations. My first thought was vacuum bag too. Lords adhesive in a vacuum bag, but I think they are too cheap to go that route, since they don't own any of the stuff now.

I'll contact Convex and see if they have any suggestions. It might all fall on deaf ears, but at least I'll know for the future if I have to do any myself.

Thanks!

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

for years I laminated aluminum to acrylic for routing letters, shapes, etc. 3m makes a few different sheets and I never had an issue with delamination even with extremely small letters...unless I didn't follow instructions.

I can not remember the 3m product number, it has been years, but I know that many lawnmower manufacturers use the same product for attaching badges, etc to their products. If you can locate a 3m product book rattle off a few descriptions and I can tell you if it is the correct one or not.

I've tried SO many alternatives, including various liquid adhesives and vacuum bags, personally I would identify the correct 3m sheet adhesive and ensure that it is being properly used, both substrates are clean of dirt, debris, oil and that proper curing time is followed (i remember one of the sheet adhesives that we used had a recommended period of time for the maximum adhesive strength...any problems that I had came from rushing that time).

 

[signage]

3M does make double sided adhesive films (3M Adhesive Transfer Tape 467MP and 468MP).

 

[CES020]

3M gave me the following suggestions :

468MP (mentioned by signage)
9485PC
950
9088

Any of those ring a bell with anyone? Since I don't always know the application for it from the customer, I told the rep from 3M I wanted to assume they were all outside use.

I'm still tracking down a few other suggestions, but I thought I'd add this info in case it rang any bells with anyone.

Thanks-
Steve

 

[Just Another Sign Guy]

one of them was 8132LE Clear, I used to buy it in 24x36 sheets but there is others for specific materials and material combinations (for example acrylic to aluminum or pvc to acrylic...there is a variety of adhesive sheets available for a wide variety of manufacturing purposes and industries outside of the sign industry).

In my experience 3m vendors tend to only think vhb for the sign industry for some reason. You might want to find a distributor that sells outside of the sign industry and is familiar with other manufacturing processes...there are also a few specialty manufacturers but I really prefer to deal with 3m adhesives when possible.

http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Products/ProdServ/

 

[Latigo]

3M 9485PC is their most agressive and we use it here all the time for laminating metals to acrylic, Sintra and Dibond.
Be aware that the 12" roll of 180 yards is a cool $680.00
Alcohol and Scotchbrite are a critical part of the laminating process.