Welcome To Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals

Signs101.com: Largest Forum for Signmaking Professionals is the LARGEST online community & discussion forum for professional sign-makers and graphic designers.

 


  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Adobe Photoshop Or Illustrator???

Discussion in 'General Software' started by Will308decals, Nov 2, 2018.

  1. Will308decals

    Will308decals Member

    78
    2
    8
    Nov 1, 2018
    United States
    Hi, I use Flexi 7 for my Gerber edge 2 and for me it is difficult to design on it. Would it be easier to design on Adobe Photoshop or Adobe Illustrator, download the design, then input it into Flexi 7 and then print on my Gerber Edge 2? Thank You
     
    Tags:
  2. studio 440

    studio 440 Member

    374
    50
    28
    Jul 19, 2010
    cali
    yes
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. 2B

    2B Very Active Member

    3,049
    395
    83
    May 5, 2011
    TX
    Do you have knowledge of these programs? if so use what you are more comfortable with.

    If not remember that
    Photoshop is raster design - cannot scale size without possible pixelation
    Illustrator is vector design - can scale size as needed
    If you are learning a new program, the designers here prefer to use Corel as a design program
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Rick

    Rick Certified Enneadecagon Designer

    6,955
    390
    83
    Apr 17, 2003
    Valle Vista
    The majority of signshops design in Illustrator and/or Corel, then send the files over to a production program like Flexi.

    I learned Flexi at the same time as Gerber GA and Corel, I have to say, if you don't get Flexi, good luck with Illustrator and/or Corel. It also depends on what type of work you are designing. Either way, it's usually hard learning a vector program on your own.

    I highly suggest online learning - Lynda.com - skillshare - and I am currently taking advantage of LinkedIn learning's free month. This particular designer teaches design along with the software... https://www.linkedin.com/learning/logo-design-illustrating-logo-marks - worth the 30 bucks a month because he supplied the files to show how the file is made.

    You are gonna hear lots of opinion. You will end up gravitating to what is comfortable, Personally, I use Illustrator in 99% of my work. I design experiential graphic design, wayfinding systems and branding. Corel can do that too and it was the first design program I mastered, but for me, dealing with various vendors, my files tend to work better with the contractors I work with, it works better with my workflow - plus I have access to the Adobe Type Library on Creative Cloud...
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  5. signman315

    signman315 Signmaker

    335
    101
    43
    Oct 5, 2015
    Leonardsville, NY
    Illustrator and photoshop integrate with each other quite well these days and i tend to think/use them as a single piece of software. By placing vector smart objects into photoshop and linking psd files in illustrator the possibilities are endless and the former limitations of vector/raster are easily avoided. And I would say a big YES to designing outside of Flexi/Composer...they serve their own purposes for production management but are a bit simplistic in their design capabilities as compared to Adobe. It’s my opinion that Flexi/Composer offer design capabilities as a value added feature, in case you have to make some small edit during production and don’t want to go all the way back to the design software. Not to say you can’t execute good design with them but not as easily and feature rich as Photoshop/illustrator. And ultimately it’s whatever you are most comfortable with.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  6. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    6,616
    334
    83
    Sep 27, 2010
    5
    I don't exactly consider it an either/or when talking about designing in PS or Ai.

    They both have their strengths (and weaknesses) and because they are both by Adobe, going between them working on a single design, they complement each other.

    In some instances, some things are better as a vector in other instances, to get a certain look/effect, Ps may be better. Sometimes it's a combination of the two.

    As far as learning curve goes, that's going to wildly vary. I do think that learning Ps (or Ai) helps with the other. Things like a similar UI etc help with the learning curve.

    Now if you are going to compare say Ai to DRAW, which are both vector programs, just with different UIs and other design (software design) philosophies, that's something else. Which one is harder, which one is easier is going to vary as well. Typically, I would say it's what one learns first.

    Some of this could also be complicated in terms of what you get (or send) to outside vendors/clients etc. That may or may not be an issue that steers you to one program over another (not much of an issue with me, but it is for some).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Pippin Decals

    Pippin Decals Active Member

    599
    84
    28
    May 29, 2015
    Ca.
    I prefer Ai. Very very easy to learn. I tried Corel and no thank you , I Couldn't get it. I had zero knowledge or experience etc in either but Ai was a cake walk for me . I't all depends what you are going to do with it ., I design in Ai and then send over to my cutting software.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
  8. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

    2,190
    191
    63
    Feb 4, 2005
    Lawton, OK
    The question in the original post sounds almost as if the forum participant is trolling.

    I don't know. Maybe I have a bit of a nasty attitude these days. But if someone is going to be doing paid graphic design work at a sign company shouldn't that person be on the ball enough to know the basic difference between how Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Illustrator both work? The difference between raster and vector is very basic newbie kind of stuff. And this gets me on the really nasty issue of poor quality sign design infecting so many commercial landscapes and the growing threat of anti-signs ordinances that threaten to put more and more of us out of us out of work. There are times where I feel like the only qualification it takes for someone to get a job designing signs is to simply have a pulse and no other qualifications above that. And that's not going to be good for the future of our industry. If it all has to be slap-dash garbage with default Arial stretched and squeezed to fit any space and other obnoxiously bad looking dreck slapped up just anywhere then we're all going to be in trouble.

    I'm sorry, but if I'm interviewing someone for a design position and that person doesn't understand the difference between Photoshop and Illustrator that's just going to set off some red flag alarms. Never mind what the applicant's portfolio might be able to say.

    By the way, Flexi isn't difficult to use. Not at all. OTOH, it is kind of limited in some respects. The folks at Scanvec-Amiable Int'l need to get on the ball and get Flexi's font handling moved beyond the mid 1990's in capability. We have 3 licenses of Flexi at my workplace, but I don't have it on my design station, and I do most of the big permanent projects. Flexi sucks for not supporting the full OpenType spec. It took the guys at Corel forever to move CorelDRAW up to supporting it (finally at freaking version X6). It's almost the year 2019. There's zero excuse for any graphics program to not properly support OpenType.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Rick

    Rick Certified Enneadecagon Designer

    6,955
    390
    83
    Apr 17, 2003
    Valle Vista
    I had thought that till I read in another thread that the OP was 17 and has had the software, printer and cutter for about a week. At 17, I was lucky if I got to sweep the floor, I was about twice the OP's age when I got my mits on a Gerber Edge... times have changed.
     
  10. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    6,616
    334
    83
    Sep 27, 2010
    5
    That seems to be the case in areas then I would like to think about. Even from some of the most unlikely of places that "you" would think wouldn't be that way.

    However, having said that, I don't think it's necessarily as easy as it just being the newbies either.

    Sure, a lot of it is newbies in various different life stages that get into different trades and have to start somewhere, but then again, you also have (in this day and age particularly) software vendors that are trying to package things as it being really really easy and all the operator needs is just a pulse. Especially with automation to where they make it seem like it's just a press of the button/click of a mouse and that's it (in my trade this is particularly bad and people fall for it all the time (even those that wouldn't fall for it in the trade that they originally started out in)).

    Shoot, I would just settle for 64 bit support on some programs.

    But, what can we really expect when we still have programs that need to be "run as admin" on occasion in this day and age either.
     
  11. Big Rice Field

    Big Rice Field Electrical/Architectural Sign Designer

    220
    32
    28
    Feb 24, 2012
    Phoenix, AZ USA
    Anybody who knows both Corel and Illustrator (like me) knows that Corel Draw is superior for use the sign industry because:
    1. it can render drawings in Architectural or Engineering scale
    2. It can import and export to CAD programs like AutoCAD
    3. It comes with dimensioning tools suitable for making engineering or architectural drawings whch are necessary for permitting
    4. For every one step you do in Corel can take three or four in Illustrator. Illustrator's vector editing tools are atrocious compared to Corel

    I rarely if ever use Illustrator anymore. I use CorelDraw for vectors and PhotoShop for rasters.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    6,616
    334
    83
    Sep 27, 2010
    5
    Interesting, in CS6, it has exporting for DWG and DWF (and can import them). Which I use to import to a machine that uses those to generate qli files.

    How well Adobe handles those files, that may be up for debate, but importing/exporting of outside program files and the reliability there of can be up for debate as well.

    Actions. Gotta love actions. May not work for everything, but for what I need them for, they do work.
     
  13. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

    410
    40
    28
    Nov 5, 2014
    Ohio
    I have the Adobe suite and I would choose Indesign over Illustrator for design but Illustrator would be required for certain things that Indesign just can't do.
    If I don't want to pay the Adobe tax I would use Affinity Designer. It is excellent and I have to use it quite often to fix vectors in PDFs that have been made in Adobe programs. It's also only $49. The full version is on Mac, Windows and iPad Pro. There is plenty of room for growth but it is amazing to work in by using modern code, made for modern OS's, and not the 25 year old code that adobe uses. It is much smoother in operation than anything Adobe has. There is also plenty of videos for training online.
    Corel and Affinity also support the newer standards of PDFs where you are not limited to 200" output like you are in Adobe products. At version 1.6 that limit was removed in the ISO standards but Adobe has never corrected the issue. I produced one file in Affinity that was 1200'
    and it worked just fine. There is also over 1,000,000% zoom in Affinity. Their suite is also getting much better too now that they have a Publisher program (beta) that is similar to Indesign, and the photo program called Affinity Photo.
    There are some great options emerging and I think that is great no matter what you prefer!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

    6,616
    334
    83
    Sep 27, 2010
    5
    Have you ever tried Scribus?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. brycesteiner

    brycesteiner Member

    410
    40
    28
    Nov 5, 2014
    Ohio
    A few years ago I did try Scribus. At the time it was not what I was used to. I was using Indesign pretty much since the day it came out. I also had found it limited especially in opening ID files BUT times have changed with PDF becoming the standard. I have been very surprised by how well Affinity opens and edits PDFs.
    I'm downloading Scribus now to give it a spin. Thanks for the reminder!
     
  16. Rick

    Rick Certified Enneadecagon Designer

    6,955
    390
    83
    Apr 17, 2003
    Valle Vista
    So... to the young OP... I'm gonna sound like an old man, well, because I sorta am... but I do have 4 boys so I'm going with my gut here...

    Some of the statements here are flat out B/S! And they actually know it.

    Right now, you are trying to get your machine to do the work of printing football stickers but when learning software - you are going to be into it for a couple of years on your own. If you are going to spend that kind of time, get some online courses in. I would ask... what are you ultimately going to do with your sign/design thing?

    Personally, I told my kids to stay away from signs... a Corel Draw sign shop designer is lucky to get 15 bucks an hour in your parts, hell, they pay that in California. They all know how to use Corel and Adobe by the way.

    If you want to just play with the machine, any old vector software will work, you want to possibly do this as a career? Look at what the big boys are using. Then ignore that and learn the process. Software is only a tool until you go apply for a job. When applying for a job, well, want a chump 12 buck an hour job at a shop in BFE? - Corel will work perfectly... you start designing more than signs (hopefully) You might want to look into Adobe CC Suite... Corel will work too, but Adobe CC has a lot more to IF you want to design more than signs, it will work for your needs now and possibly in the near future in whatever direction you go.

    By the way. take a look at good work... Joe Diaz of Diaz Sign Art (A Corel Draw user) or go to Kickcharge Creative's website and feast your eyes on their work (Illustrator users) Or some of my graphic designer favorites, Aaron Draplin or Von Glitschka (Illustrator users) - all younger than me by the way... and see that it's the skill and process - not the software...

    If all you want to do is print stickers, ignore all that I typed... welcome to the sign business...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. kcollinsdesign

    kcollinsdesign Active Member

    527
    154
    43
    Apr 22, 2007
    Normal, Illinois
    Get both AI and PS. You can try Corel Draw down the road, but most professional workflows use Adobe products. Corel may be more intuitive, and the learning curve is less steep than AI, but AI is more versatile and, once mastered, more useful. I have both. I also use Corel Painter for certain things that it does better than PS. The cost is irrelevant if you are working professionally.

    InDesign is easy to learn, versatile, and fast for layouts. Fine if all you are doing is text, clip art, and photo placement. But you will need AI for vector art, and PS for bitmap manipulation. For most sign shops, AI does layout and type handling just as good as InDesign, and you don't need to flip between programs. I use InDesign for multipage print documents, and AI for the majority of my sign layouts.

    By the way, Hot Door CADtools (an AI plug-in) is indispensable to me. It allows you to draw in scale, and much more.
     
  18. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

    2,190
    191
    63
    Feb 4, 2005
    Lawton, OK
    I've been using both CorelDRAW and Adobe Illustrator for over 25 years (Corel since 1990 and Illustrator since 1993). I won't say either is demonstrably better than the other. Both applications have a lot of their own pros and cons when it comes to sign design and graphic design in general.

    I consider this a non-issue. I produce work in CorelDRAW at full size. I refuse to apply scale ratios to CorelDRAW's rulers because it does not translate outside of the program to other applications like Flexi and EnRoute. And it's not 100% accurate either. Paste artwork from one CDR file set in scale to another CDR document in normal scale and the artwork sometimes won't scale to full size accurately. Those issues make working in scale a hazard for a mixed application environment. My client sketches have artwork reduced to a defined scale, but those are separate files from my full sized layout. The only time the artwork gets scaled is when it's too big to fit in the CorelDRAW work space (which maxes at 1800" X 1800").

    Illustrator doesn't allow users to apply scales to its rulers out of the box. Hot Door's CAD Tools plug-in will allow that.

    Adobe Illustrator can import DXF and DWG artwork. I sometimes get better results opening DXF and DWG files in Illustrator than CorelDRAW. Typically I ask any firm wanting to send a DXF or DWG to just send a PDF of their plan sheets instead. That's more reliable.

    I think the built-in dimensioning tools for CorelDRAW stink. I make my own call outs on client sketches. It's not hard to do and it's easier to control the style and positioning of elements than some auto-generated nonsense.

    While I prefer Corel's tool set for a lot of technical drawing tasks, it's very easy to go back and forth pointing out specific things one program does better than the other. I find Corel's color handling to be atrocious. If my design is going to be output from a digital printer I'll bring Corel-generated artwork into Adobe Illustrator CC and do final adjustments on color and fill effects before creating an EPS or PDF to send to Onyx Thrive. Corel only adjusts CMYK & RGB fills in whole percentage numbers. Illustrator can do it down to hundredths of a pecent. Illustrator's gradient fills don't get infected with banding problems like those coming from CorelDRAW. Illustrator's keyboard short cuts for screen navigation (zoom in/out & hand panning) are far superior. Illustrator's pen tool has far superior keyboard short cuts.

    One of the really big advantages of having Illustrator is accurately opening corporate logos from PDFs. Corel stinks at handling PDFs. And when a complex logo has been saved in a PDF without Illustrator-editing capability preserved it will be riddled with lots of clipping masks, broken open paths and all sorts of other trash. Plug-ins like Astute Graphics' Vector First Aid can fix that artwork in seconds, saving hours upon hours of drudgery if you tried opening and fixing the same PDF artwork in CorelDRAW.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. burgmurk

    burgmurk Member

    139
    22
    18
    Oct 24, 2016
    Auckland, New Zealand
    i worked in more traditional print shops for nearly 20 years before i started in signage. I know the adobe suite in and out and when i was presented with flexi it felt clunky and just plain awful.
    I have an archive of work in flexi format from previous operators that i occasionally have to use, i worked out how to export to illustrator and that's about the only time it gets used.
    if you need to use it as a rip, i guess you'll have to put the time in to learning it, but if that's not the case and you're fluent with illustrator, i don't think it's necessary.
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...

Share This Page

 


Loading...