Advise PLEASE. Pigmented Ink printing on Adhesive Vinyl and Laminated.Anyone DO THIS?

[kevin3vd1]

Advise PLEASE. Pigmented Ink printing on Adhesive Vinyl and Laminated.Anyone DO THIS?
If anyone has experience with Printing "WITH PIGMENTED INKS" on Adhesive vinyl I'd love to get your input.
How long will it last outdoors. Sihl products say they will last 2 years outdoors when using UV lamination.
Thanks for your help!

 

[Malkin]

When we were using an aqueous machine (pigmented inks) we were told the ink would last about 6 months no lam, and up to 5 years with lam. That seemed to hold true, though we laminated everything anyway. You'll probably get quite a variety of answers on this.

How long the vinyl/lam lasts is another story... we always used cast media for outdoor.

The only major issue (besides very high material costs) was that there was a tendency for the lam to delaminate at the edges, peeling off the almost chalky surface of the specially coated vinyl.

 

[BigfishDM]

You can get up to 2-3 years no problem with lamination and pigmented inks. The Sihl product is pretty good so you should be fine. Whats the application though?

 

[kevin3vd1]

Some flat stickers on crop Signs.

Some flat stickers on crop Signs on coroplast.
Some flat stickers on race cars/No too fancy like a wrap. Just numbers on flat panels.

 

[BigfishDM]

The only issue you might run into is shrinkage, all inkjet vinyls are calandered and for the race car application and coroplast signs your asking for trouble if your selling it as a long term graphic (over 12 months) You will get shrinkage and that can cause edgelift which causes upset clients which causes lost revenue in the future.

 

[kevin3vd1]

Your right. The crop signs clients only want about 8 months.

Your right. The crop signs clients only want about 8 months.
I think most of these race cars are repainted every year.
I'd have to let them know up front about how long they are meant to last.
I do not really think I have enough reason to buy more equipment if this will work for these applications.

 

[kevin3vd1]

What's a few good laminations for this? UV Laminations or what? Thanks!

What's a few good laminations for this? UV Laminations or what? Thanks!

 

[GAC05]

Oracal 210g
worked well for me when I printed with water based inks

www.oracal.com/products/product.asp?seriesID=173


wayne k
guam usa

 

[kevin3vd1]

Thanks GOC05. Any other recommendations for Lamination? Thanks!!!

Thanks GOC05. Any other recommendations for Lamination? Thanks!!!

 

[kevin3vd1]

Which bulk pigmented ink and adhesive vinyl works good for 1 year or so?. I'm just st

Which bulk pigmented ink and adhesive vinyl works good for 1 year or so?. I'm just starting out in the printing end of this and I'm excited to see this might work with my printer. I have a 4 color HP designjet 110 plus.
Thanks,
Kevin

 

[GAC05]

I don't know about the ink for an HP.
This material works fine with the Oracal 210 for at least 2 years outside on on a sign or vehicle(without going into compound curved areas or over rivets) if you edge seal the print or over cut the lam to seal the edges

http://store.gregory1.com/vdetail.aspx?2S117000020

might be some merchant members here that sell the same or similar material...

wayne k
guam usa

 

[cmyimage]

As I know some sign supply company do have the adhesive vinyl for water base (pigment/dye) printer. But I've never seen one. I carry the adhesive polypropylene(PP) banner material 8mil 36" for pigment printer. But remember the pigment ink is not as durable as solvent ink. If the image have to put to direct sunlight, image printed with pigment ink, even you laminate it with anti-UV lamination, it might last only 1 year or less, or 4~6 month with just regular lam, color will fade, yellow will always gone first. But if you put they indoor without direct sunlight, even pigment ink can last 10 years or more.

 

[marcsitkin]

HP, Intellicoat, Lexjet make SA vinyl for aqueous printers.

If you wish to laminate it, use a thin calandered VINYL laminate over it. It's good to pair substrates and laminates that match.

Longevity will vary, primarily related to the stability of the ink. One thing we ALWAYS do when testing new combinations of ink, substrate and laminate is put a test print out in the bright sun. We've had many unfortunate occurances where the adhesive in a laminate would rapidly degrade the colors of an image. By testing, you can avoid an embarrassing remake.

 

[jwalter]

Designjet 110+

I have been using my designjet 110+ to print ads, banners & stickers for my own business needs. The problem is if they get wet, they are ruined. I looked into it & came to the conclusion that the problem is this printer can not use the type of ink that is water proof.
Is that incorrect?
If i understand the response I quoted below, it is actually the material that I'm using, not the ink or printer....
Thanks,
jason

I don't know about the ink for an HP.
This material works fine with the Oracal 210 for at least 2 years outside on on a sign or vehicle(without going into compound curved areas or over rivets) if you edge seal the print or over cut the lam to seal the edges

http://store.gregory1.com/vdetail.aspx?2S117000020

might be some merchant members here that sell the same or similar material...

wayne k
guam usa

 

[wildindian]

We use Jexar from Fellers with Clear Shield Liquid laminate with good success. Rock of Ages gloss vinyl and Lamex laminate work well also.

 

[wes70]

I have been using my designjet 110+ to print ads, banners & stickers for my own business needs. The problem is if they get wet, they are ruined. I looked into it & came to the conclusion that the problem is this printer can not use the type of ink that is water proof.
Is that incorrect?
If i understand the response I quoted below, it is actually the material that I'm using, not the ink or printer....
Thanks,
jason

It's your ink. Your printer doesn't have pigment ink (except black), it has dye inks. Dye inks have great color, but fade very fast if subjected to UV rays... even inside. Also, dye inks are not water resistant. This is why all aqueous photo printers now use pigment inks.

FWIW, I have a HP Z2100 printer and have prints outside (laminated) that still look great after 3.5 years! But, I still sub out for solvent prints when needed.

 

[wes70]

Wildindian, do you have a link to the "rock of ages" gloss vinyl? Been looking for aqueous gloss vinyl for interior use.

 

[Rooster]

Aqueous medias have a coating that absorbs water. You need to edge seal anything that will be used outdoors or encapsulate it with a thermal laminator. The coating will wick water in from the edges if it's not sealed.

I had a sign we printed and hung in our entrance at my last shop. It was a very thick UV lam over top and even in an area indoors that saw very little direct sunlight it was noticeably faded within three years. That was using true pigmented aqueous inks. Had it been outdoors or facing south it would have faded much much quicker.