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Agfa M2 Vs. Oce Arizona GT350
- Thread starter WB
- Start date
beermonster
New Member
no personal experience but looked at these when looking to replace my (heap of junk korean cr@p) machine
quality wise the best seemed to be the anapurna - speed the arizona/acuity
arizona/acuity downside is the maximum rigid size is fixed to the bed size - on the anapurna in "theory" you can put any rigid length you can fit through it
look at consumables pricing, how each prints on your "typical" materials, user friendliness, adaptability of the machine for the thing YOU do (turning lamps off, reducing power - changing lamps - that kinda stuff)
dont forget to haggle (recession still on - they want to sell - you want to buy)
for what I do here (limited flat foamex boards) the acuity arizona was best fit
quality wise the best seemed to be the anapurna - speed the arizona/acuity
arizona/acuity downside is the maximum rigid size is fixed to the bed size - on the anapurna in "theory" you can put any rigid length you can fit through it
look at consumables pricing, how each prints on your "typical" materials, user friendliness, adaptability of the machine for the thing YOU do (turning lamps off, reducing power - changing lamps - that kinda stuff)
dont forget to haggle (recession still on - they want to sell - you want to buy)
for what I do here (limited flat foamex boards) the acuity arizona was best fit
rfulford
New Member
No production experience with these machines either but there are a few things that I would like to point out.
The Agfa machines as far as I know are made or at least developed by Dili and have been re branded by AGFA. Still this is a nice machine but I strongly ask myself what AGFA brings to the table when you buy a printer identical to one you can purchase from Dili.
On the other side of the coin, the Oce Arizona 350 is manufactured by Oce and uses Sericol inks. Consequently, I would look at Fuji-Sericol's re branded Oce Arizona 350. My bet is that you will be able to get better ink pricing from sericol.
The Agfa machines as far as I know are made or at least developed by Dili and have been re branded by AGFA. Still this is a nice machine but I strongly ask myself what AGFA brings to the table when you buy a printer identical to one you can purchase from Dili.
On the other side of the coin, the Oce Arizona 350 is manufactured by Oce and uses Sericol inks. Consequently, I would look at Fuji-Sericol's re branded Oce Arizona 350. My bet is that you will be able to get better ink pricing from sericol.
miltondavis
New Member
I would like to get the oce 350gt as well. Fully optioned (roll, white ink, static suppress, etc) its about double the agfa, but Ive heard some positive things about the agfa. How much did the oce drop? 2k, 5k, ..?
WB
New Member
I think since we've been lookign at the OCe they've come down about 15k.. we've been lookign and talking to the guy for sometime now.. We were sold on the OCe but the price was high and then the M2 came out and was priced abit better but still isn't the machine the 350GT is. I think we've decieded on the OCE without the roll and the white options.. Just have to get all our ducks in a row, we're trying to get a 5x10 AXYZ table in at the same time. It's a faily bit investment to make so went want to make sure we can handle it and that everything is in order.
particleman
New Member
My experience is with the M4f, looking back we should have gotten the m2 as speed is the major difference.m4 does have vacuum hold down. m2 is 6 color, 6 head, ours is 4 color 4 head. The Anapurna M is 6c/6 head also but slower. All that said we're happy with ours. Not sure what you're planning on printing on, but we were advised by more than one source the oce has ink adhesion issues on corrugated. We are satisfied with our adhesion with the agfa on corrugated though. If you need white ink I don't think you can get the speed with the agfa, the mw is not as fast.
Steve Werner
New Member
Before you purchase either be sure to send either Fuji or Agfa all the materials you intend to print on as well as those you might consider in the future. The Oce seems to be a bit more finicky as far as adhesion is concerned as well as generally laying down a nice solid when it comes to olefins. The Agfa seems to sometimes " cook " substrates, especially rigid vinyls making them brittle and very susceptable to cracking. Also, if you intend to router materials after you print have that testing done, the inks can chip away.
miltondavis
New Member
WB-
Is your 15k drop factoring the new promo I just heard about-
get a 350gt with white ink for no added charge (15k upgrade)?
Is your 15k drop factoring the new promo I just heard about-
get a 350gt with white ink for no added charge (15k upgrade)?
Molenbeek
New Member
We carry both machines and both have very different abilities- as well as some of the same. It really comes down to price point as well as the greater need of either the Hybrid style or the Gantry system- which will be dependent on the type of work you do.
Both machines have great reviews and customers that love them and wouldn't dream of another printer.
Both machines have great reviews and customers that love them and wouldn't dream of another printer.
Agfa M4 is a 4/C 4 head machine, 512 nozzles per head.
M is a 6/C 6 head machine, 512 nozzles per head.
M2 is a 6/C 6 head machine, 1024 nozzles per head.
I've been getting samples and specs off of a bunch of different machines. IMO, the Oce 350/Fuji Acuity models have the best print quality, the Agfa M2 has slightly less quality, but is faster at production quality. Unless, you pony up to the Oce 550/Fuji Acuity HS which is quite a bit faster than the M2. But I think we're talking semi affordable machines for us small guys, under $150K.
On the samples I have, the Agfa has better adhesion than the Fuji, but this is running Fuji's KO inkset, the newer KI inkset is suppose to have better adhesion. I'm going to do an onsite demo mid Aug with a machine running the KI set. I haven't discounted the Agfa, but haven't scheduled a demo yet.
The dark horse I'm looking at is the HP FB 500. I did get samples off of the FB 950 and the adhesion to various substrates was impressive, much better than both the Agfa and Fuji. Print quality put it just behind the Agfa. I stopped looking at it because of price. Now with the FB 500 coming in at about $100K, I'm giving it a second look. My rep says it has the same adhesion as the 950 with better print quality. Doing a demo on that one first week of Sept.
After my experience with the ION, I'm taking my time and making sure our next UV is a good fit. I need to have it figured out by Oct for the SGIA show, that's where the best deal will be made.
M is a 6/C 6 head machine, 512 nozzles per head.
M2 is a 6/C 6 head machine, 1024 nozzles per head.
I've been getting samples and specs off of a bunch of different machines. IMO, the Oce 350/Fuji Acuity models have the best print quality, the Agfa M2 has slightly less quality, but is faster at production quality. Unless, you pony up to the Oce 550/Fuji Acuity HS which is quite a bit faster than the M2. But I think we're talking semi affordable machines for us small guys, under $150K.
On the samples I have, the Agfa has better adhesion than the Fuji, but this is running Fuji's KO inkset, the newer KI inkset is suppose to have better adhesion. I'm going to do an onsite demo mid Aug with a machine running the KI set. I haven't discounted the Agfa, but haven't scheduled a demo yet.
The dark horse I'm looking at is the HP FB 500. I did get samples off of the FB 950 and the adhesion to various substrates was impressive, much better than both the Agfa and Fuji. Print quality put it just behind the Agfa. I stopped looking at it because of price. Now with the FB 500 coming in at about $100K, I'm giving it a second look. My rep says it has the same adhesion as the 950 with better print quality. Doing a demo on that one first week of Sept.
After my experience with the ION, I'm taking my time and making sure our next UV is a good fit. I need to have it figured out by Oct for the SGIA show, that's where the best deal will be made.
HulkSmash
New Member
The Oce is a SOLID machine. I've used one for severl years now. No problems what so ever.. fast reliable.. just overall excellent. The best part about the oce i have to admit is the customer support. They are just great. They know their stuff and will fix always have a solution. You will find them stopping into your shop just to see how things are going. They're a great company to work with. I'd go with Oce..
JoshMarten
New Member
The GT 350 is a very nice machine, and the M2 is a worthy competitor. The ability to run longer than 8' material is a serious argument for the M2, as is roll capability as standard.
Someone asked what the difference is between the Dilli and the M2. I'll offer up the expanation that Chris Beighley from Agfa gave me. He is the west coast rep and is very hands on Tech - does setups and trainings to support his sales. The chassis and body are Dilli, as are many of the components. Chris explained, however that Agfa takes the basic chassis and uses high end components for key systems, such as pumps, servos, motors, etc; whereas Dilli may use Korean or less expensive components. The devil is in the details, as they say.
The Agfa ink, IMHO tends to have better adhesion without the use of promoters than the Oce' and the ink runs roughly 12-14 cents per square foot whereas I have heard of Oce averaging 20-22 cents per foot. I can personally verify that Agfa's scratch resistance on coro is very good.
Someone asked what the difference is between the Dilli and the M2. I'll offer up the expanation that Chris Beighley from Agfa gave me. He is the west coast rep and is very hands on Tech - does setups and trainings to support his sales. The chassis and body are Dilli, as are many of the components. Chris explained, however that Agfa takes the basic chassis and uses high end components for key systems, such as pumps, servos, motors, etc; whereas Dilli may use Korean or less expensive components. The devil is in the details, as they say.
The Agfa ink, IMHO tends to have better adhesion without the use of promoters than the Oce' and the ink runs roughly 12-14 cents per square foot whereas I have heard of Oce averaging 20-22 cents per foot. I can personally verify that Agfa's scratch resistance on coro is very good.