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Alpha Paper cockling in HP 315 no matter what I try

jtiii

I paid good money for you to read this!
The ALPHA Matte Photo Paper -
  • 8 mil, matte photo paper
  • Water and scratch resistant
  • Special coating provides block out and eliminate cockling
  • For any photo reproduction
  • Solvent/eco-solvent, UV and latex ink compatible
  • Can be laminated
we get bidirectional wrinkles at 16p with minimum temperature 140, we get them at 8p low coverage and 175, we get them with any premade profile.

I asked Wensco if they had a profile or even a passes/temp combo to try. They had nothing at all for their latex customers on this.
First the sales rep told me that this paper is latex compatible emphasizing the word presumably because he couldn't wink and touch the side of his nose over the phone. I waited until he moved past that. He then said that I could look at all the paper profiles out there and try some that might be similar to this paper.
When I politely told him umm no he enthusiastically suggested I try the 3m IJ-180C profile "because it works on almost anything!" he remained enthused even after acknowledging that paper and vinyl on a liner are very different substrates.
After assuring him I would try that I pointed out how disappointing this was and he said he would try to find out who actually made the paper and see if they had a profile. They did not but told him what the closest product was that they DID have a profile for.

Results -
The heats were way too high on the similar profile they suggested.
The 3M 180 profile went about as well as you might imagine INCLUDING an amazing color shift.
I've burned sixty feet of this 150 roll as well as several valuable hours just messing with this and I'm a bit frustrated.

Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Should I have been using a different type of paper? It's about seventy feet of 24"x30" posters and I almost ordered them from 365 but then was like "hey I could get this paper for half the cost and still have seventy feet left over!"
THanks in advance y'all.
 
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JBurton

Signtologist
Only paper (aside from HP photo paper that came with the printer) that I've tried in my 560. Works great, but will likely be pricey.
I have run cheap white butcher paper through with no issues, but it's thin and not opaque. Print quality was amazing considering how cheap it was.
 

Practical Printer

Digital Printing for Practical People

Most paper will work. But, you must control for temperature and inkload. Passes only factors in that is allows you to travel through the printer slower. 16p 100% ink = 8p 100% ink. Heat plus ink is the main origin of the issue.

Ideally, for paper inclined to cockle and pocket (causing head scraping) would be: 12p or 16p at 80% density and 160 F. If you can get to 90% density, good for you. 100% density is rare. Use vacuum liberally, it does help, but if your heat and inkload are

You can build it from scratch on the printer on a 315 (not cloning) but the ICC will be 'premade" from internal lookup table. Let me see if I have an ideal OMS for you. Paper is very tricky on Gen 3 Latex because you carry so much water into the curing unit unevaporated. 260 had none of these issues because it had an evaporated heater in the print zone (which cause other undesirable IQ issues).

HP addressed this in Gen 4. Epson Resin has no issues because they have tied heaters and a platen heater to remove most/all of the water.

Let me see if I have other videos for you.

Best,

PP (Latex Czar in exile)
 

Signstein

New Member
JT- did you have better results with higher passes / lower density? I'm printing on the Synaps OM that JBurton linked above and I'm having the same cockling and warping issues.

synapsom.jpg
 

JBurton

Signtologist
JT- did you have better results with higher passes / lower density? I'm printing on the Synaps OM that JBurton linked above and I'm having the same cockling and warping issues.

View attachment 168286

Whoa, I know I ran some samples on this roll, and I don't recall having this issue in the least. If you haven't heard, I'm the guy that runs everything at 20 passes, so I suspect cranking passes would help. That or increasing the interpass delay by quite a bit. Here's what they say:
1699919318331.png

They hide their printer info on this page, find your product and printing recommendations for the full pdf: https://nekoosa.com/resources

Also, cockling, heh.
 

Signstein

New Member
Thanks! They only sent a 3 yard sample, so after trying the OEM profile, I tried 20 pass at 80% and it was SOOO much better. And thanks for the link - it's bookmarked now!
 

jtiii

I paid good money for you to read this!
I suspect cranking passes would help. That or increasing the interpass delay by quite a bit.
I tried 20 pass at 80% and it was SOOO much better.
Signstein I had given up and ordered out of house. Would you and JBurton share if you are printing unidirectional, if you have a delay, and/or what your drying temperature is? Thanks guys! I've eaten almost 60' of this roll but maybe I can get something out of the rest of it.
 

MarkSnelling

Mark Snelling - Hasco Graphics
I sell at ton of Synaps...I believe we are the largest distributor of Synaps rolls in the country. The product has built in profiles available right on the printer. It is slow due to the heat, though.

What I've found is you need to use papers which have some aspects of latex saturation which makes the paper a bit softer and less reactive to the heat and ink. Our Performance paper works really well on latex and solvent and I've had a lot of thankful users who used this product with success.

Performance Paper 54"x164' = $148.00 or $.902/linear foot
Synaps 8mil 54"x100' = $202.83 or $2.02/linear foot

For you Synaps users who run banner stands, we are the only distributor to stock and sell 36"x200' rolls for more production.
 

Signstein

New Member
Signstein I had given up and ordered out of house. Would you and JBurton share if you are printing unidirectional, if you have a delay, and/or what your drying temperature is? Thanks guys! I've eaten almost 60' of this roll but maybe I can get something out of the rest of it.

Here's what gave me the best results: 20 pass, 80% saturation, bi-directional, no delay, 160 degree temp.
 

Signstein

New Member
Performance Paper 54"x164' = $148.00 or $.902/linear foot
Synaps 8mil 54"x100' = $202.83 or $2.02/linear foot

Mark - is this the Performance Paper you're referencing:

Seems very similar, and my non-profit employer will like the lower price point.
Do you have warehouses on the east coast? Any chance of getting a sample?
 
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