Aluminum Composite vs Aluminum vs Alumalite ??

[glow30]

Hi All,

Trying to make sense or all of the substrates
I have a client that needs signage for community garden needs to last long and UV and snow restraint -
The signs are just to mark certain locations within the garden such as the bee side, chicken side etc. Some are going on fence others on a post.( not sure yet if they using u channel or a wooden post) So we will need to drill holes for them

0.80 Aluminum
3mm Aluminum Composite this is same as Alupanel ?
6mm Alumalite
5mm Alumacorr

How do you go about picking the right one for this project ? Size? location? Flexibility,? outdoor span? weight? sign post? Surface Smoothness?

Should they be reflective?

Thank you for any insight

 

[moharrow]

3mm Aluminum Composite this is same as Alupanel-
Sounds like diBond or something similar. I've used this product extensively and haven't had too many issues with durability especially if used in conjunction with a laminate

 

[Stacey K]

I only use reflective if they ask - it's very expensive compared to regular vinyl. If the signs are smaller directional signs, like 12x18, you can order some .080 or .063 blanks with the rounded corners and just put vinyl on them.

Grimco | .063 Painted Aluminum Sign Blanks – Radius Corners

www.grimco.com

 

[JBurton]

I select based on:
budget
regulations (if any)
budget
desired life of sign
budget
So currently, with what I know, I'd recommend acm, non reflective. Community gardens are not exactly flush with cash, nor are they all that busy after dark when lights would be directed at them...
Edit to add: ACM = Aluminum Composite Material, same as ACP = Panel. They basically take a bunch of waste plastics, mix them together, then extrude it between two pieces of aluminum foil. There are much fancier versions with fire retardation and thicker skins, but in the sign world, they are inconsistent and cheap.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I select based on:
budget
regulations (if any)
budget
desired life of sign
budget
So currently, with what I know, I'd recommend acm, non reflective. Community gardens are not exactly flush with cash, nor are they all that busy after dark when lights would be directed at them...
Edit to add: ACM = Aluminum Composite Material, same as ACP = Panel. They basically take a bunch of waste plastics, mix them together, then extrude it between two pieces of aluminum foil. There are much fancier versions with fire retardation and thicker skins, but in the sign world, they are inconsistent and cheap.

when i started selling dibond 20 years ago... i billed it as a superior choice that many local guys were still using crappy wood. ACM would stand the test of time... now 20 years later it's basically garbage? come on

 

[JBurton]

when i started selling dibond 20 years ago... i billed it as a superior choice that many local guys were still using crappy wood. ACM would stand the test of time... now 20 years later it's basically garbage? come on

Compared to a .080 aluminum panel, yes. I'd be willing to bet you will not find a single acm panel, from 20 years ago (that was not installed in a trimmed frame) that isn't either blown away, delaminated, or beat to death.

 

[MrDav3C]

In the UK I would guess that the majority of external commercial and industrial signs are made out of ACM.

There are different grades of ACM, different skin thicknesses etc. I think from memory ACM was initially used in the construction industry as a cladding material for buildings?

As for product longevity I think ACM holds up reasonably well but I would be surprised if any of our customers would be expecting a sign to last 20 years. Decent quality cut vinyls only have an expected lifespan of upto 10 years with metallics and printed being somewhat less, so does the lifespan of ACM need to be much longer than this?

I personally like the idea that customers will return sooner than this as their businesses change and grow and they require new signage to reflect this, partially down to how well we have advertised and promoted their business with their previous signs.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

In the UK I would guess that the majority of external commercial and industrial signs are made out of ACM.

There are different grades of ACM, different skin thicknesses etc. I think from memory ACM was initially used in the construction industry as a cladding material for buildings?

As for product longevity I think ACM holds up reasonably well but I would be surprised if any of our customers would be expecting a sign to last 20 years. Decent quality cut vinyls only have an expected lifespan of upto 10 years with metallics and printed being somewhat less, so does the lifespan of ACM need to be much longer than this?

I personally like the idea that customers will return sooner than this as their businesses change and grow and they require new signage to reflect this, partially down to how well we have advertised and promoted their business with their previous signs.

Isn't ACM what caused the fast spread of that large apartment building fire a few years ago in the UK? AFAIK, the epcot ball is clad with ACM

 

[Stacey K]

I use ACM for most signs. I like Alumalite for longer more permanent business signs. For smaller signs if they are more permanent, I use the .063 or .080 but for indoor or maybe signs that won't be up real long I use ACM. Much of it depends on the budget. I hate to be mean but some signs (or businesses) you just know won't be around long so ACM is fine...

 

[Gino]

Some things posted here, made me chuckle. Before acm was on the playing field, it was either wood or aluminum for the most part. We had many signs last 20 and 25 years without looking bad...... if ya made them correctly. Still have some around which are well over 35 years old. Aluminum sheets of .080 or .125 lasted a long time too, if they were prepped and sprayed properly. The paint years ago was made to last, not this snot they sell ya now. Vinyl is only a 9 or 10 year option by buying the best. People today are brainwashed into thinking about the life of the sign, based on the short-lived supplies of today.

 

[signheremd]

The disadvantage of Alumalite for this application is the corrugated centers - home potential for unwanted garden bugs - plus it is not much less expensive than regular solid core ACM. We use aluminum composite material a lot. I am not much of a fan of using 3mm on posts as strong winds can bend the panel - against a wall or fence would be fine. Definitely a decent product as it looks good, is weather resistant, and light weight.

 

[Geneva Olson]

arent acm, allumalite and allumacorr all the same product but different brands? and I know you can get them in different thicknesses.??

 

[JBurton]

arent acm, allumalite and allumacorr all the same product but different brands? and I know you can get them in different thicknesses.??

Alumalite is a brand, I believe they offer both a corrugated and solid core option for acm, but you know how people are, kleenex is kleenex... The corrugated versions have a much thicker face, maybe 063, making them suitable where you need a structural panel, that has something semi heavy that it needs to support.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

Some things posted here, made me chuckle. Before acm was on the playing field, it was either wood or aluminum for the most part. We had many signs last 20 and 25 years without looking bad...... if ya made them correctly. Still have some around which are well over 35 years old. Aluminum sheets of .080 or .125 lasted a long time too, if they were prepped and sprayed properly. The paint years ago was made to last, not this snot they sell ya now. Vinyl is only a 9 or 10 year option by buying the best. People today are brainwashed into thinking about the life of the sign, based on the short-lived supplies of today.

to be fair, too many people head straight for the cheap crap, especially with paint. We are debating ACM here which I would consider a cheap substrate and kind of proves this point.
You can get paint that lasts but the majority of paint related questions here indicate water based house paint and alkyd enamels are the go to for way too many people. It's a dime holding up a dollar but they made a bunch of money on it so who cares, right?

 

[MrDav3C]

Isn't ACM what caused the fast spread of that large apartment building fire a few years ago in the UK? AFAIK, the epcot ball is clad with ACM

Yes it did, unfortunately there are different types of ACM, some of which is fire rated & flame retardant and other that aren't. It's my belief that what was used on that particular block of flats wasn't flame retardant - terrible if I'm correct!

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I heard that too. Makes you wonder if what we're selling coming from China is OK