Aluminum Number Sign Questions

[CNC]

I recently launched a business which will be selling house number address signs. I'm maybe 1-2 weeks from launching.

I got a bunch of designs made in photoshop, now I'm working on actually creating them physically to get experience with the process, understand how much time it takes etc. Then I can finalize my pricing model etc.

My plan is to use 1/4" aluminum plate on all the signs. I'll cut the blanks using a table saw, from there I will mount it to my CNC machine and mill out .75mm pockets for the letters and numbers.. these will be filled with 1 shot paints. From what I've read a lot of people on the forums aren't a fan of 1 shot anymore.. but it's too late already spent $425 on an order. Maybe next time I'll get a different brand.

* Do I need primer inside the pockets?

* If I fill the 0.75mm pocket with paint is that an ok idea? I'm wondering If there's a better process that would use less paint, have faster dying time etc. Speed of creation is extremely important and I'm trying to optimize ASAP without sacrificing too much quality.

* Is it ok to bake the sign in the oven for a short period of time to speed the drying process? I have a toaster oven I can use

* What kind of clear coat is best to use? Also what is a standard finish for house number signs? I'm thinking satin, because heavy gloss really doesn't look good in my opinion. This is what I was thinking of going with: Matthews Acrylic Polyurethane MAP Clear, it's quite expensive though I'm trying to find a comparable clear that costs less. There's also one by Matthews with a catalyst that costs 4x the price. I'm not sure what the difference between the two is and why the one with catalyst is so pricey.

Any help appreciated!

 

[visual800]

personally for me I would coat with 2 part auto epoxy and then spray with latex and the roll the other color on top with latex.
one shot is crap and good luck clearing it because one shot clear is also crap, MAP is good but expensive as you mentioned.
latex is flexible and will last quite awhile

 

[JBurton]

You'd do best to start prototyping these now if you plan to launch in a couple weeks... Once you're done prototyping and settle on a method and crunch your hours and materials, then you can worry with pricing.
I'm all for helping advise someone on how to go about all of this, but you've put the cart in front of the horse in front of yourself here...

 

[Boudica]

 

[James Burke]

Machined aluminum is going to have a sheen with a lot of cutter marks that will most likely show through the paint.

In my (40 years) experience, the best way to prep such a substrate is to sandblast the aluminum. But even at that, the cutter marks may still show through unless you sand them out...which again, should be followed by sandblasting to provide a sufficient tooth for the paint to bond.

Home Depot, Menards and Lowe's both offer cast aluminum house number plaques that feature numerous options for typeface, borders and texture. Check them out and see what they're doing.

JB

 

[James Burke]

I recently launched a business which will be selling house number address signs. I'm maybe 1-2 weeks from launching.

I got a bunch of designs made in photoshop, now I'm working on actually creating them physically to get experience with the process, understand how much time it takes etc. Then I can finalize my pricing model etc.

My plan is to use 1/4" aluminum plate on all the signs. I'll cut the blanks using a table saw, from there I will mount it to my CNC machine and mill out .75mm pockets for the letters and numbers.. these will be filled with 1 shot paints. From what I've read a lot of people on the forums aren't a fan of 1 shot anymore.. but it's too late already spent $425 on an order. Maybe next time I'll get a different brand.

* Do I need primer inside the pockets?

* If I fill the 0.75mm pocket with paint is that an ok idea? I'm wondering If there's a better process that would use less paint, have faster dying time etc. Speed of creation is extremely important and I'm trying to optimize ASAP without sacrificing too much quality.

* Is it ok to bake the sign in the oven for a short period of time to speed the drying process? I have a toaster oven I can use

* What kind of clear coat is best to use? Also what is a standard finish for house number signs? I'm thinking satin, because heavy gloss really doesn't look good in my opinion. This is what I was thinking of going with: Matthews Acrylic Polyurethane MAP Clear, it's quite expensive though I'm trying to find a comparable clear that costs less. There's also one by Matthews with a catalyst that costs 4x the price. I'm not sure what the difference between the two is and why the one with catalyst is so pricey.

Any help appreciated!

.75 mm (1/32") is A LOT of paint to expect to dry anytime soon. With paint that thick, expect considerable imperfections (thin paint along external edges, fish eye, wrinkles, etc...). Catalyst coatings are expensive due to the extensive amount of chemicals.

In all honesty, you'd be better off with a light sandblast and a multi-stage powder coat for what you're attempting to do. In addition to unlimited color options, powder coating is the trifecta of speed, durability and texture options.


JB

 

[James Burke]

You'd do best to start prototyping these now if you plan to launch in a couple weeks... Once you're done prototyping and settle on a method and crunch your hours and materials, then you can worry with pricing.
I'm all for helping advise someone on how to go about all of this, but you've put the cart in front of the horse in front of yourself here...

Agreed. There are many obstacles to work through, especially when competing with what is offered through Home Depot, Lowes and Menards.

JB

 

[gnubler]

I'm all for people trying to start their own thing and don't want to bring the OP down, but what kind of market is there for metal house number signs? Seems like such a very specific business model and I would think there's already a saturation of things like this on Etsy, etc.
Not knocking you, but curious what led you to focus on house number signs?

 

[White Haus]

You'd do best to start prototyping these now if you plan to launch in a couple weeks... Once you're done prototyping and settle on a method and crunch your hours and materials, then you can worry with pricing.
I'm all for helping advise someone on how to go about all of this, but you've put the cart in front of the horse in front of yourself here...

Agreed. How can you be so close to launching "a business" yet have literally no idea how you're going to make the product.

I guess this is what happens when every Tom, Dick and Harry can set up an e-commerce site and say they own their own business.

Snide remarks aside, I wish you the best with your venture but I'm afraid you've got a long road ahead of you.

 

[CNC]

personally for me I would coat with 2 part auto epoxy and then spray with latex and the roll the other color on top with latex.
one shot is crap and good luck clearing it because one shot clear is also crap, MAP is good but expensive as you mentioned.
latex is flexible and will last quite awhile

is the regular MAP clear coat any good or just the one with the catalyst?

what's the reasoning behind that painting process?

You'd do best to start prototyping these now if you plan to launch in a couple weeks... Once you're done prototyping and settle on a method and crunch your hours and materials, then you can worry with pricing.
I'm all for helping advise someone on how to go about all of this, but you've put the cart in front of the horse in front of yourself here...

all I really need advice on is paint related stuff. do I absolutely need primer under the 1 shot or no? what's the best satin clear to throw on top?

Machined aluminum is going to have a sheen with a lot of cutter marks that will most likely show through the paint.

In my (40 years) experience, the best way to prep such a substrate is to sandblast the aluminum. But even at that, the cutter marks may still show through unless you sand them out...which again, should be followed by sandblasting to provide a sufficient tooth for the paint to bond.

Home Depot, Menards and Lowe's both offer cast aluminum house number plaques that feature numerous options for typeface, borders and texture. Check them out and see what they're doing.

JB

I have a sandblaster but it's really un-ideal for me to use it often because it's absolutely massive and it's in my shed. I could use it if needed but I'm going to try and find an alternative. I think the standard finish is going to be brushed aluminum.

I googled some pics of sandblasted aluminum and I think I can get a very similar effect with a fine grit orbital sander. I'll need to test it.

.75 mm (1/32") is A LOT of paint to expect to dry anytime soon. With paint that thick, expect considerable imperfections (thin paint along external edges, fish eye, wrinkles, etc...). Catalyst coatings are expensive due to the extensive amount of chemicals.

In all honesty, you'd be better off with a light sandblast and a multi-stage powder coat for what you're attempting to do. In addition to unlimited color options, powder coating is the trifecta of speed, durability and texture options.


JB

I did some tests at 1mm the paint takes around 2 days to dry if I put it in the toaster oven at 150 for 45 minutes right away. I don't know if that damages the paint though. I also don't know the difference between dry and fully cured. Looking for advice. I'll run some tests to see how long 1 shot takes to dry with various depth of cut. maybe I'll do 1/3 of a mm.

Agreed. There are many obstacles to work through, especially when competing with what is offered through Home Depot, Lowes and Menards.

JB

Around my place the signs at homedepot are mostly junk. I don't see them as competition. Anyone who wants to pay $100 for a cheap sign isn't my target demographic anyway.

I'm all for people trying to start their own thing and don't want to bring the OP down, but what kind of market is there for metal house number signs? Seems like such a very specific business model and I would think there's already a saturation of things like this on Etsy, etc.
Not knocking you, but curious what led you to focus on house number signs?

Saturated markets are good or bad depending on perspective and skill set. I'm a marketer so I'm not too worried.

I won't be running on Etsy, there are some really nice signs being sold on there though.

Agreed. How can you be so close to launching "a business" yet have literally no idea how you're going to make the product.

I guess this is what happens when every Tom, Dick and Harry can set up an e-commerce site and say they own their own business.

Snide remarks aside, I wish you the best with your venture but I'm afraid you've got a long road ahead of you.

Me asking for paint advice is "literally no idea how to make the product"? That sounds a bit goofy.

What I'm doing is asking industry professionals for paint advice to avoid potential problems before they happen. I could just go with 1 shot, no primer, add MAP clear, but figure it's better to ask first.

Don't act like making a sign is so complex. In the grand scheme of things it's extremely basic. I have a few gaps in my knowledge regarding paints you could solve in 20 typed words.

 

[Boudica]

Don't act like making a sign is so complex. In the grand scheme of things it's extremely basic. I have a few gaps in my knowledge regarding paints you could solve in 20 typed words.

Before you jump on here and get too snarky, this is what makes you sound like you don't know what your getting into:

I got a bunch of designs made in photoshop, now I'm working on actually creating them physically to get experience with the process, understand how much time it takes etc. Then I can finalize my pricing model etc.

I read that like you have more to learn than what kind of paint to use.

 

[JBurton]

Don't act like making a sign is so complex. In the grand scheme of things it's extremely basic. I have a few gaps in my knowledge regarding paints you could solve in 20 typed words.

Oh I see. Why not pick up some cast vinyl and stick it over some sanded aluminum, or better yet just buy brushed aluminum acm and stick vinyl to it? They have knife inserts for a standard CNC that would allow you to cut vinyl, 5 minutes to prep and stick and you're golden. High quality vinyl will outlast many paints that aren't powder coated anyways.

 

[CNC]

Before you jump on here and get too snarky, this is what makes you sound like you don't know what your getting into:

I got a bunch of designs made in photoshop, now I'm working on actually creating them physically to get experience with the process, understand how much time it takes etc. Then I can finalize my pricing model etc.

I read that like you have more to learn than what kind of paint to use.

I just find it annoying when I ask for advice and people bring what I perceive to be negative energy towards the project or goal. I shouldn't need to waste time qualifying myself or explaining why I can succeed and make a sign lol. Just spoon feed me some answers and I'm confident to move forwards and make adjustments if needed. With paint it's important to get advice and recommendations because if it starts failing and cracking after 6 months, or if the clear coat peels, or turns yellow.. and I have 500 signs sold with warranties.. not good. I'm trying to pre-emptively avoid this. I already made a mistake ordering $450 of 1 shot paints (though I did initial research I didn't do enough), I need to avoid future mistakes.

I also need to create a streamlined process to mass manufacture signs on the CNC machine. That's not what I need advice on though. That process is already 80% complete, things are falling into place day by day.

Oh I see. Why not pick up some cast vinyl and stick it over some sanded aluminum, or better yet just buy brushed aluminum acm and stick vinyl to it? They have knife inserts for a standard CNC that would allow you to cut vinyl, 5 minutes to prep and stick and you're golden. High quality vinyl will outlast many paints that aren't powder coated anyways.

One of the reasons I wanted to avoid that is really cheap number signs are using vinyl and ACM panel. The kind that sell for $25 shipped (https://www.ksmartsign.co.uk/presa5-28w-bmar-c.html). I just don't think homeowners will pay top dollar for vinyl lettering. Originally when doing research I thought the vinyl wasn't durable and would fail after 2-4 years in the sun. Apparently it can last for a really long time though like you mentioned which was a surprise to me. I'm trying to make as high end of a product as possible. ACM panel looks amazing but I prefer aluminum plate. I was going to incorporate some ACM panel into certain designs to contrast against the aluminum plate, it looks really modern and sharp. Designs will vary and improve with time, mostly based on customer surveys and feedback and less on my own personal tastes and biases.

 

[Boudica]

You're annoyed, because you are arrogant. Perhaps you should have phrased your op differently. Perhaps you should have searched this forum for a minute to get some insight, read other threads. Lots of great information on this forum, but you need to be more specific to what kind of answer you want, starting with how you ask.
You're new, welcome to the forum, but don't be so cocky when you're asking for help.

 

[JBurton]

I shouldn't need to waste time qualifying myself or explaining why I can succeed and make a sign lol.

I wonder if there is a marketing101 board somewhere that tears down folks saying sh*t like, "I launched my SEO company, it will launch in two weeks, but I need to know how to go about doing SEO. plz hlp"

 

[gnubler]

Don't act like making a sign is so complex. In the grand scheme of things it's extremely basic.

Evidently not, as you're finding out here. There's the knowledge of all the variables involved with signage that only come with experience. For someone with lack of/limited experience at least you're doing the right thing by asking questions, but your arrogance & attitude is repelling.

 

[Notarealsignguy]

I wonder if there is a marketing101 board somewhere that tears down folks saying sh*t like, "I launched my SEO company, it will launch in two weeks, but I need to know how to go about doing SEO. plz hlp"

You betcha, ideas are easy, execution is not. You see it in damn near every forum.

 

[Gino]

.......... in every industry.

 

[CNC]

You're annoyed, because you are arrogant. Perhaps you should have phrased your op differently. Perhaps you should have searched this forum for a minute to get some insight, read other threads. Lots of great information on this forum, but you need to be more specific to what kind of answer you want, starting with how you ask.
You're new, welcome to the forum, but don't be so cocky when you're asking for help.

Cocky, intelligent and arrogant. My mentor would genuinely be proud.

I definitely should have phrased the OP differently. It's a terrible post done in 20 seconds before I went to bed. Regardless. You guys failed to answer the questions. It's not like you're obligated, but if you have the experience it should be easy. Ask me questions based on any of my skill sets I'll give you solid info with zero effort.

No hard feelings from my end, but I won't be sticking around.

I wonder if there is a marketing101 board somewhere that tears down folks saying sh*t like, "I launched my SEO company, it will launch in two weeks, but I need to know how to go about doing SEO. plz hlp"

I made good money on my first website, second website, etc within weeks of launching them in industries where 99.99% of people never make a penny. Successfully learned SEO in weeks. On marketing boards if people asked questions, even if I knew they would fail I'd still give them solid advice to the best of my ability. Sure other people would roast them but that's loser behavior as far as I'm concerned. You should never put negativity on peoples goals. If they're delusional or don't have what it takes life will teach them the lesson.

Evidently not, as you're finding out here. There's the knowledge of all the variables involved with signage that only come with experience. For someone with lack of/limited experience at least you're doing the right thing by asking questions, but your arrogance & attitude is repelling.

I wasn't negative at all till there was heat pushed my way. All I did was call it out and check the behavior.

It's not about me getting experience. You're either gatekeeping basic information or just not interested in sharing the info, you'd rather engage in drama.

You betcha, ideas are easy, execution is not. You see it in damn near every forum.

Doesn't matter if it's easy or hard. That's why it's different for me. I simply DGAF about the level of difficulty it's going to get done regardless.

.......... in every industry.

I was thinking the same thing

-Unwarranted negativity
-Gatekeeping information
-Non-answers

Anyway, I'm out. Have fun!

 

[Notarealsignguy]

No, wait, tell me more!