Always getting jealous of other decals!

[jlalasvt]

About 7 months ago I purchased a new MIMAKI CJV-30-130,

Of course when it was sold to me I was promised that it was one of the best printers you could buy on the market..

Its.. ok.. sometimes..

I am a very particular person about more than just a few things in life. An absolute perfectionist to aesthetics in general.

I always compare my prints to every other print I see. With that being said, I keep noticing other decals that I receive when I purchase ; whatever it may be.

The one thing that sticks out to me particularly is that I can look at my prints and see the DPI on the lowest setting and some of these guys have product that turns out looking like GLASS! Very clean and depth looking, as well as really thick and durable feeling. I normally do mass production for people that are only concerned about $ Rather than quality, So I have pretty much never printed on anything but very thin and cheap Ritrama media.

I would like to know if my big new purchase can produce something that look like a banner you see at the movie theater,

So to get to the point, Is it the printer? Is it the media? Is it cast of calendered? is it latex over solvent? What is the catch?

Thanks for looking. Any suggestions would be awesome.

 

[AF]

Garbage in, garbage out. You say you only use the lowest tier materials, so you should expect the lowest tier final product. Your customers demand low price over quality so you are meeting their needs perfectly. I think you would be shocked at the difference your printer can do with high end materials. Keep in mind that cast vinyl doesn't mean it has a high quality ink receptive layer. You will want to test many materials to find the ones that work best with your workflow, equipment and environmental conditions.

 

[jlalasvt]

Garbage in, garbage out. You say you only use the lowest tier materials, so you should expect the lowest tier final product. Your customers demand low price over quality so you are meeting their needs perfectly. I think you would be shocked at the difference your printer can do with high end materials. Keep in mind that cast vinyl doesn't mean it has a high quality ink receptive layer. You will want to test many materials to find the ones that work best with your workflow, equipment and environmental conditions.

AF, Thanks for the reply!

Agreed, Just honestly did not know if my printer could do it.. Do you have any suggestions for a media that I should try?

 

[phototec]

The clarity or resolution of your printed image is more dependent on the artwork resolution and printer settings than the media you are printing on. I don't have your brand of printer so I don't know what to tell you, I have a Roland and I can tell you my printer and the Versaworks RIP has different settings for printing high or low resolution images depending on the output desired.


The old saying "garbage in - garbage out" is TRUE, if you want the to look good (like glass), you need to start with high resolution artwork not 72dpi, and then select a high resolution profile in your RIP (whatever it is), and print at a slower speed to achieve the highest resolution output.


Any good grade media will reproduce the image you are after, as stated, it has more to do with the artwork, selected media profile and the printer settings than the media.

 

[visual800]

I would also ask what are you designing in? Can you design? So many factor add depth to decals. Flexi I love but Thank God I can flair it up with Illy

 

[Gino]

We're all...... always second guessing ourselves and our purchases/equipment.

The grass is always greener on the other side.

Garbage in.... garbage out.

There are a ton of sayings, which fit your situation.


You need to get out and look at yourself and instead of being envious of everyone else, figure out what you're doing wrong/different. Most likely, it's a combination of things from profiles, to low end files, to bad media to just about anything, but good reasons. Evidently, you take too many short cuts to please a low end clientel. Perhaps, if you raised the bar, you'll start seeing a difference, not just in your output, but your bottom line at the bank.

 

[kffernandez]

the stickers i produce using my eco solvent roland are ok.

but i have seen stickers for high end car enthusiast parts, and i can only imagine how they are made. the stickers are incredibly thick, usually embossed, with metallics, and in some cases even has a top 2-3mm layer of what looks like silicone.

i can imagine that uv lamination / printing could probably do that now, along with the metallics. but i have yet to see local media suppliers provide stickers that has the thickness and quality feel that these special stickers do. and that silicon part? no idea whatsoever.

kelly

 

[bigben]

Those are likely domed with a 2 part epoxy resin. There are only a handful of companies that handle the automated, high volume runs but for lower quantities they are easily done in-house.

Here are some we've done recently, it really turns a plain decal into something impressive.

wow, I would love to learn how to make those.

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

the stickers i produce using my eco solvent roland are ok.

but i have seen stickers for high end car enthusiast parts, and i can only imagine how they are made. the stickers are incredibly thick, usually embossed, with metallics, and in some cases even has a top 2-3mm layer of what looks like silicone.

i can imagine that uv lamination / printing could probably do that now, along with the metallics. but i have yet to see local media suppliers provide stickers that has the thickness and quality feel that these special stickers do. and that silicon part? no idea whatsoever.

kelly

There called domed stickers. Special machine lays the doming overtop. Sounds like you might also be talking about screen printed stickers.

 

[Mosh]

wow, I would love to learn how to make those.

[video=youtube;CQN9i05fjDQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQN9i05fjDQ[/video]

 

[Solventinkjet]

I have noticed that a lot of CJV30 end users are not using the print head alignments as they should. If there is one thing I don't like about the CJV is that it doesn't handle head alignment like the Mutohs. Mutoh aligns the print head for every speed, quality and head height so that you don't have to worry as much about it but Mimaki only lets you align the print head for 4 types of material at a time. This means that if you are loading material that you have never used, the alignments will most likely be off. Read through your manual and learn how to run the "media comp." and "drop pos. correct" alignments and that will give you a little more control over quality. However, no matter how good the alignments are and how high of a resolution your profile is, if the file you RIP is poor quality, it will always print poor quality.

 

[phototec]

Those are likely domed with a 2 part epoxy resin. There are only a handful of companies that handle the automated, high volume runs but for lower quantities they are easily done in-house.

Here are some we've done recently, it really turns a plain decal into something impressive.

Nice work Pat, what system are you using (brand of epoxy resin) and how do you control the amount of epoxy resin placed on each decal to keep them consistent looking?

 

[BIG EASY DOES IT]

[video=youtube;CQN9i05fjDQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQN9i05fjDQ[/video]

That video shows you how to do it.

 

[James Burke]

So I'm assuming that the surface tension keeps the resin on the decal and not oozing over onto the backer....inquiring minds want to know.


JB

 

[phototec]

That video shows you how to do it.

Yes, I can see that, however I specifically wanted to know how Pat regulates the amount of resin onto the surface of each decal out of the gun, ie : 2oz of liquid per decal or just eyeball the amount?

In Pat's photo, all the doming looks to be the same height, however if you apply more or less liquid resin to each decal, they will be thicker or thinner, so how do you keep the amount of resin constant on 100 decals using the hand squeezed gun?

Automated equipment squirts out the exact amount onto each decal, but doing it manually how do you control the amount is what I was asking.

[video=youtube;7W-FANWVDAo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W-FANWVDAo[/video]

 

[phototec]

Ok, I found a video showing a automatic resin doming applicator, looks like this is a must have tool for doing this:

[video=youtube;Vj2oDGMfhf4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vj2oDGMfhf4[/video]

 

[rjssigns]

Yes, I can see that, however I specifically wanted to know how Pat regulates the amount of resin onto the surface of each decal out of the gun, ie : 2oz of liquid per decal or just eyeball the amount?

In Pat's photo, all the doming looks to be the same height, however if you apply more or less liquid resin to each decal, they will be thicker or thinner, so how do you keep the amount of resin constant on 100 decals using the hand squeezed gun?

Automated equipment squirts out the exact amount onto each decal, but doing it manually how do you control the amount is what I was asking.



When doming manually you become acutely aware of exactly how much resin to dispense. Surface tension can only hold X amount of weight before it runs off the edge. After you do a pile of different sizes it becomes second nature. You can only get a set amount of thickness too.

First off you need to set up a dead level glass sheet as a work surface. A digital level is fantastic for this. It beeps when you're spot on.
When dispensing I start 1/8" inside the edge then continue to spiral inwards until there is a small open space.
Then I move onto the next and so forth. You have to give it time to flow out. You can always add a bit more, but can't take any away. Once it goes off the edge the decal is junk. Stuff seems to be unnaturally attracted to adhesive.
Once I'm done dispensing I go back through with a fine sewing needle and micro-torch to pop any bubbles.
Cover with a plastic container and walk away.

Somewhere on here I posted some antique dash badges I had to replicate.

WARNING: Do not buy doming resins until you need them, EVER. Fresh, Fresh, Fresh! I played with some outdated stuff while waiting for the new shipment to arrive. Stuff stayed tacky for over a week and was slightly cloudy.

 

[phototec]

Yes, I can see that, however I specifically wanted to know how Pat regulates the amount of resin onto the surface of each decal out of the gun, ie : 2oz of liquid per decal or just eyeball the amount?

In Pat's photo, all the doming looks to be the same height, however if you apply more or less liquid resin to each decal, they will be thicker or thinner, so how do you keep the amount of resin constant on 100 decals using the hand squeezed gun?

Automated equipment squirts out the exact amount onto each decal, but doing it manually how do you control the amount is what I was asking.



When doming manually you become acutely aware of exactly how much resin to dispense. Surface tension can only hold X amount of weight before it runs off the edge. After you do a pile of different sizes it becomes second nature. You can only get a set amount of thickness too.

First off you need to set up a dead level glass sheet as a work surface. A digital level is fantastic for this. It beeps when you're spot on.
When dispensing I start 1/8" inside the edge then continue to spiral inwards until there is a small open space.
Then I move onto the next and so forth. You have to give it time to flow out. You can always add a bit more, but can't take any away. Once it goes off the edge the decal is junk. Stuff seems to be unnaturally attracted to adhesive.
Once I'm done dispensing I go back through with a fine sewing needle and micro-torch to pop any bubbles.
Cover with a plastic container and walk away.

Somewhere on here I posted some antique dash badges I had to replicate.

WARNING: Do not buy doming resins until you need them, EVER. Fresh, Fresh, Fresh! I played with some outdated stuff while waiting for the new shipment to arrive. Stuff stayed tacky for over a week and was slightly cloudy.

Ok, all good info - much appreciated.

Now for some more questions:

Do you use Polyurethane resin or Epoxy resin?

Flexible or ridged?

Where do you purchase your resin?

What kid of dispenser do you use?

 

[rjssigns]

Ok, all good info - much appreciated.

Now for some more questions:

Do you use Polyurethane resin or Epoxy resin?

I use automotive grade polyurethane. Contrary to popular belief epoxy will take on color when exposed to sunlight.

Flexible or ridged?

Semi-flexible.

Where do you purchase your resin?

From a real estate company out east.(weird huh?) Name escapes me right now. (getting old is great...)

What kid of dispenser do you use?

The mixing nozzle that comes with the cartridges and a 3M DMA 50 gun. Its a binary product so the nozzle has spiral inserts. They give you a couple three with each pouch.
You can buy kits. It is slightly intimidating until you ruin some pieces. Of course some ruin all by themselves, like metallized polyesters.

Hope this told you what you needed to know.

 

[Dennis422]

Hope this told you what you needed to know.

Did you remember the name of the company you buy resin from?
I use Cyclone resin, but it gets a bit pricy.

I have a bunch of 200ml cartridges that are 1:1 ratio, so I would need something that is 1:1 too.

Thanks

 

[fresh]

Did you remember the name of the company you buy resin from?
I use Cyclone resin, but it gets a bit pricy.

I have a bunch of 200ml cartridges that are 1:1 ratio, so I would need something that is 1:1 too.

Thanks

We've ordered doming resin from http://daius.com/ in the past. I don't know how their prices compare, since its not something we regularly offer. But I was pleased with the product and customer service.

 

[jfiscus]

Prior to the tangent about doming decals the OP I think was also concerned with being able to see the dots in his print.

I have used a few different printers and I know there is a very noticeable print quality difference between some. Many of the newer printers have been tweaked to produce more quantity / higher print speed at the sacrifice of quality.

The Mimaki printers here are a bit older, and they run all day every day w/o any issue, but they just don't put out the quality I have seen off of other printers like the Epson printer I used to run.

Play with your settings and see if you can get a better quality and save a preset, but I have a feeling that you are trying to compare your wide format printer's prints to offset-press printed pieces and you are really comparing apples to oranges.