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Am I being stupid???

J

jdwilliams1

New Member
I have a novelty sign business. We have been selling online for 10 years now...We sell novelty street signs as well as other novelty aluminum signs. Our substrates are

4x18, 6x24, 9x36, 10x14, 12x18, 12x12 .040 and .080 aluminum

I currently use vinyl for the many 1 offs that I make every day.

I am thinking about buying a Colorspan UVX Printer so that I might print there rather than the masking weeding vinyl route.

I am also looking at the 1024 direct color systems uv printer.

The Color span is about $10,000 and used....the DCS printer is new and about $25,000-$30,000.

I know very little about these machines so the used colorspan scares me a bit, especially after reading negative impressions online. On the flipside, the DCS company seems to come with good support.

I know the DCS printer would not be able to do all of my substrate sizes and it is slow but it would be somewhat portable..


Any thoughts?

Jay
 
iSign

iSign

New Member
From a workflow standpoint, and the possibility of different business minded views seeing your options differently... I think you might get some valuable insights from others... which you obviously recognize too, or you wouldn't be asking....


And... I think that those of us not familiar with those machine model numbers could still potentially have some insights to offer too, except not so much if we don't see clearly what the choices you mentioned will offer you...

So, can you say a little more about those machines? Your post is in the "Flatbed" forum... but even that second machine sounds cheap, and you mentioned portability... So, what IS that? Does it print direct to your aluminum? You said not all sizes... So, it's small, and doesn't do your larger sizes? What volume of your work can you do on it? If it's direct, will the larger signs seem inferior if you only transition production methods on the smaller ones?

Or is this NOT a direct to aluminum scenario (since I never heard of cheap options... but wouldn't be looking at small machines either)... One of your machines mentioned is just a vinyl printer though, right? Maybe they both are?

As you can see I have no idea what we're talking about here, but not going to go look it up either... might check back though..
 
B

bayshorecreations

New Member
Lets start off with this simple question.
Are you selling that many novelty signs that you can justify buying a printer?
I'm not saying that you're not, just make sure that you are bringing in enough to cover the costs involved with a printer.
 
J

jdwilliams1

New Member
iSign said:
From a workflow standpoint, and the possibility of different business minded views seeing your options differently... I think you might get some valuable insights from others... which you obviously recognize too, or you wouldn't be asking....


And... I think that those of us not familiar with those machine model numbers could still potentially have some insights to offer too, except not so much if we don't see clearly what the choices you mentioned will offer you...

So, can you say a little more about those machines? Your post is in the "Flatbed" forum... but even that second machine sounds cheap, and you mentioned portability... So, what IS that? Does it print direct to your aluminum? You said not all sizes... So, it's small, and doesn't do your larger sizes? What volume of your work can you do on it? If it's direct, will the larger signs seem inferior if you only transition production methods on the smaller ones?

Or is this NOT a direct to aluminum scenario (since I never heard of cheap options... but wouldn't be looking at small machines either)... One of your machines mentioned is just a vinyl printer though, right? Maybe they both are?

As you can see I have no idea what we're talking about here, but not going to go look it up either... might check back though..
Click to expand...

Sorry I was not very clear...

Here is the small machine. I thought it would be nice to go to shows and print onto my aluminum blanks. By shows I mean festivals. That would be a huge advantage for me if I could use the machine at shows and festivals.

The other machine is a Colorspan UVX 72", I would have thought most people have heard of those. But my concern is, is it wise to buy a used on of these machines for 10000-12000
 
J

jdwilliams1

New Member
bayshorecreations said:
Lets start off with this simple question.
Are you selling that many novelty signs that you can justify buying a printer?
I'm not saying that you're not, just make sure that you are bringing in enough to cover the costs involved with a printer.
Click to expand...

Good question.

We sell about $30000-$60000 per month. We sell direct to consumer online, and to many retailers. We are also licensed for about 20 products with General Motors.
 
Redz Signs Inc.

Redz Signs Inc.

New Member
i Really dont think its a good idea to constantly move the printer to shows due to the face that they are highly heavy and need to be in a controled atmosphere. there not really made to take to your regular antique roadshow.
 
artbot

artbot

New Member
that colorspan is going to kick your ***. i believe the ones that do own them had the advantage of getting them new learning how it's supposed to behave then being able to maintain it after that experience. there is some company in california that has dedicated their business to refurbing and servicing them. don't remember what they are called. but you could search around and eventually find them. if it's just little signs, why not get a dtg printer and put ecosolvent in it? i've seen it done.
 
J

jdwilliams1

New Member
artbot said:
that colorspan is going to kick your ***. i believe the ones that do own them had the advantage of getting them new learning how it's supposed to behave then being able to maintain it after that experience. there is some company in california that has dedicated their business to refurbing and servicing them. don't remember what they are called. but you could search around and eventually find them. if it's just little signs, why not get a dtg printer and put ecosolvent in it? i've seen it done.
Click to expand...

I'll tell you what artbot...you seem to know what you are talking about so I would like to hear more. I have been selling my novelty signs for 10 years. I have been using vinyls up til now, so I would like to keep at least the quality of an average vinyl. Some of my customers might use these outdoors but mostly I am sure they are indoors. I am just looking for an easy way to get this done without breaking the bank and I would like to be able to move the printer around. I have bought from competitors and some use inks and they do not seem as good as those that use the uv. The uv seems textured and a bit heavier. The inks I am able to scratch up a bit.

My current application is I sell mostly green street signs so I lay white vinyl on green and then for colors I lay vinyl over white blanks and allow the white to show through the letters and for the border.

What are your thoughts on this.

I would really value your opinion.
 
J

jdwilliams1

New Member
artbot said:
that colorspan is going to kick your ***. i believe the ones that do own them had the advantage of getting them new learning how it's supposed to behave then being able to maintain it after that experience. there is some company in california that has dedicated their business to refurbing and servicing them. don't remember what they are called. but you could search around and eventually find them. if it's just little signs, why not get a dtg printer and put ecosolvent in it? i've seen it done.
Click to expand...

One other deal. One of my suppliers was trying to talk me into buying a large latex printer but I asked him...how do I get the blanks lined up on the printed material?
 
cdiesel

cdiesel

New Member
One other thing to consider, the size (I'm assuming you're using pre-cut blanks) you are printing is very small. Smaller than most of the printers I've seen will allow to be used for a sheet size. Of course if you're using a true flatbed this is not an issue, but for a belt drive system it would be.

A latex printer wouldn't save you any time.. you'd still be mounting prints. Direct is the way you'd want to go. You'll also want to watch out for ink adhesion, as some of the units out there have a problem adhereing to aluminum.
 
J

Just Another Sign Guy

New Member
if your largest sign was 0.2" smaller I'd actually consider a gerber edge and then an automated applicator but unless something has changed the max print width is 11.8"

i'm hearing NOTHING but good things regarding latex printers you should read some of the other threads and the various materials that users are printing on and their results.

in regards to how you would line up the print if it was on film versus printed direct to substrate throws me for a loop with the volume of signs you are doing ... it really isn't a problem for an experienced tradesman/woman....and with the volume you are doing and at a small selection of standard sizes you should have jigs set up or an automated applicator.

at $30-60K per month respectfully i don't understand why you are looking at old technology (and somewhat unreliable at that) set your self up with a quality machine that will allow you to make a much better product (in my opinion) than cut vinyl which is also extremely labor intensive in today's market place.

any print method to film would be saving him time versus weeding vinyl..especially at this quantity. and if they are applying by hand (with squeegee) at these volumes they REALLY need to look at automated application devices. just my opinion(s)
 
Gino

Gino

Premium Subscriber
I'll chime in here, since we have a Dilli flatbed and about two years background with them personally and about five years with subbing out.

I've only heard bad reports about the ColorSpans, hence why we never considered one when shopping around.

  • As for lugging a flatbed around from show to show, levelness is a key factor in these machines and could be rather tricky when carting this thing all over creation.
  • I don't know if the one you're looking at has U/V lamps, but it's hard on them turning them on and off all the time for so many short runs. That could become a cost factor for you.
  • If you're doing 30k to 60k a month in these things, you should be able to set up a booth or whatever and show your samples, take orders and then spit them out all day long back at your shop.
If you need to mass produce these on the spot, well, I don't think that machine is available yet, unless you got bucks to spend.
 
Rooster

Rooster

New Member
Moving a printer and operating them in an uncontrolled environment is asking for all sorts of issues.

Never mind the temperature and humidity requirements for basic operation. Add in the potential for dust and possibly tweaking the chassis during a move and you could have a very expensive high tech boat anchor in short order.

That said Mimaki has a smaller format desktop sized UV printer out. I'm sure other manufacturers have something similar as well. These could possibly take the risk out of moving them, but you're still stuck with the problem of trying to print under all sorts of humidity, temperature and other environmental conditions.

A printer could certainly boost your daily production, but using them at "festivals" which I assume is possibly outdoors is not the best idea.
 
phototec

phototec

New Member
Thinking it over, and analyzing all your requirements, I don't think a UV flat bed printer will work for you because as mentioned, they are NOT mobile and are NOT made to be moved from show to show.

So, I would consider the NEW Roland VersaStudio 20" BN-20 desktop printer/cutter and print EcoSol ink on digital media, two up, (one for each side), and cut four (4) registration holes just out side the image area, then come up with a mounting jig that will have four registration pins. place the aluminum blank in the jig, place the printed media with the registration holes over the pins, peel the backing, and using a roller, apply the printed graphic to the aluminum blank. Lift the blank off the jig, turn it over and repeat for the back side, and your done.

Yes, you will need to do your homework and create templates and jigs for all your standard size products, but in the end, it could be muck better than cutting vinyl, weeding, applying ap tape and applying the vinyl.

I have been in the graphics business a along time, letterpress, offset lithography, screen printing, pad printing, digital printing, and I seriously doubt you will find any other method that would be truly portable, other than a desktop printer/cutter.

And just think of all the other possibilities you could do with this printer?

http://www.rolanddga.com/gallery/vi...emo&subCategory=&video=mgfln6hoOIs&tab=1#tab1

:cool1:
 
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