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another CNC exterior FCO letter question, regarding double face sheet adhesive...

Discussion in 'Dimensional Signs' started by iSign, Mar 1, 2011.

  1. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    If I want to cut out letters to mount to a signboard, wall, or perhaps a second set of the letter, to double up thickness, or add a larger outline of a different color material....

    ...I think I would like to apply sheet adhesive to the substrate before routing.

    I've purchased letters done this way but have never done my own yet. I'm shipping in my semi-annual large order of roll goods on a barge next week, and I'd like to specify a proven product that I can add to my order, to use for this purpose.

    There are 3M VHB tapes sold in 24" rolls for example, but as one might expect they are not cheap. I don't mind paying for the right product, but don't want to guess, and there are a number of different VHB products.

    Can I hear from some of the CNC veterans here, regarding your experience with certain products?
     
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  2. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    bump
     
  3. SignManiac

    SignManiac Major Contributor

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    VHB is good for many applications, but by far I use a lot of PVC cement along with PL Construction adhesive for most of my bonding situations. That along with mechanical fasteners for back up insurance in nearly all situations.
     
  4. John Butto

    John Butto Very Active Member

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    3m 9471

    This is Hi Strength Adhesive and is thin and clear and I use it for formica or thin pvc, plastics to a variety of surfaces and once it is on you cannot remove easily. It is quite expensive.
     
  5. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    thank you both.

    Bob, for example, on several small thin stroke serif letters... have you pre-applied sheet adhesive to assist in mounting this sort of thing? I've cut them without adhesive & then had a hell of a time getting enough adhesive on, without slobbering it on to thick...


    I'm going to call 1-800-3M-helps & see about the 9471, and whatever else I can learn from them, and then report back!

    anyone else?
     
  6. John L

    John L Very Active Member

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    Thin serif letters may not like the "un-repositionability" aspects of the peel and stick adhesive choices. For doubling up cuts here we use pvc glue on pvc sheet parts, weldon on acrylic parts, and dabs of silicone for many other material types and non-similar material connections. Urethane glue (gorilla glue) is great too but you have to be very careful to just use a touch and in the center of the stroke width or it will swell out (they say it expands to 4 times its original mass).


    a BARGE? ... and I thought I had to think ahead living out in the counry.

    Can't you just stop off at this place on the way home...
     

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  7. CES020

    CES020 Very Active Member

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    I'd be looking for liquid adhesive, not sheet adhesive. J
     
  8. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Gudy 808 for interior jobs.............
    and Gudy Outdoor for ....... obviously outdoor use​


    Using it for a few years. Great product !!
     
  9. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    thanks everyone...

    my 3M call resulted in the following comparative details:

    • 3M VHB rolls of item 4905 24" x 72 yds, .020 thick (& VERY HEAVY BOND as the VHB name implies) $3745 (ouch)
    • 3M non-vhb item 9471 24" x 60 yds, .002 thick (not as heavy bond) $454 - (but so thin it might not bond to textured walls for example)
    • 3M non-vhb item 9472 24" x 60 yds, .005 thick (not as heavy bond) $700ish - (over twice as thick as 9471 & should bond to textured walls for example)

    Gino, I'll look that up! (where do you get yours?)
     
  10. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Doug, we use 4905 and 4910 and believe me, it won't work for some of your applications. Certain adhesives are for very specified applications. You must be careful. What will work with PVC's may not work with metal... may not work with papers [like Gator] may not work well putting two entirely different substrates together at all. Besides, the stuff we get is like 50" x 400' and costs about $700. You can get 50" x 200', but you lose some savings, however, the rolls are easier to handle. Believe it or not, I asked my supplier if they'd send to you and they said sure, but that you can probably get it from a much closer supplier, thus saving in shipping.
     
  11. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    google says Montroy has the GUDY stuff...

    myself and another local shop have been considering taking them up on their free freight offer, for purchases of $1000 or more (on 4x4 pallets - or $1500 on 4x8 pallets)

    ...so, maybe I will check them for pricing & substrate suitability for different substrates
     
  12. John Butto

    John Butto Very Active Member

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    Advantage Sign Supply

    Neschen makes Gudy outdoor and they are a supplier. I have use this product and it is very good but still feel at ease when using 3M.
     
  13. CES020

    CES020 Very Active Member

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    Sorry, I misunderstood the post. I thought you wanted to glue things together, not so much mount things as well as glue them. I still recommend liquids for gluing things together.
     
  14. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    anyone else use the 9471 or 9472?

    anyone else use the Gudy Outdoor?

    Thinking of buying today... not sure which yet...

    my supplier can sell me Gudy808 roll of 38" x 50yds, for $228
    still waiting for price on Gudy Outdoor
     
  15. andy

    andy Active Member

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    Doug,

    The easiest solution is to buy a selection of Grey sign grade VHB tapes in the standard widths and have your tape supplier punch them into coins. This will give you a selection of self adhesive discs which fit virtually all stroke widths and makes tape application a doddle.

    Full coverage with VHB is something we looked at and rejected due to cost and waste... for most letter substrates full reverse coverage is total overkill.

    We've had good results with sign grade VHB tape and use this coin technique practically everyday... it works like a charm.
     
  16. iSign

    iSign Major Contributor

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    wow... good info Andy, I think I'll take your advice for now & complete my media order without any wide format double face adhesive tape for now.
     
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