Another Double-Sided Printing Thread

[JardeRich]

Hi Folks,

I'm printing some double-sided banners for a client on blockout banner material. I've done quite a few previously but never had much success accurately aligning the 2nd side to the 1st. In this instance the banners are quite small and the print length around 1400mm. Even so, the print length on the 2nd side, without any adjustment, was 7mm longer. I adjusted the image size (feed only) by a fraction to compensate for this, but the last batch I've just completed has sent me back to square one.

I am getting pretty close to the roll end, and it did occur to me this might have something to do with the issue - IMO the media always feels tighter the closer you get to the core. I've ordered a fresh roll for tomorrow and will try again. In the mean time , if any of you have any top tips for improving alignment on double sided jobs I'd be very grateful.

If it helps, I'm using RL7 and the image is centred on the media.

Apologies for the UK spellings and metric measurements.

 

[unclebun]

I gave up and don't sell double sided banners.

 

[jfiscus]

We usually just sew two banners together if possible.

 

[Pauly]

Cheaper to sell 2 banners the same size rather than run a double sided print on a printer with no reverse side registration.

 

[Henrix Overcash]

Hi Folks,

I'm printing some double-sided banners for a client on blockout banner material. I've done quite a few previously but never had much success accurately aligning the 2nd side to the 1st. In this instance the banners are quite small and the print length around 1400mm. Even so, the print length on the 2nd side, without any adjustment, was 7mm longer. I adjusted the image size (feed only) by a fraction to compensate for this, but the last batch I've just completed has sent me back to square one.

I am getting pretty close to the roll end, and it did occur to me this might have something to do with the issue - IMO the media always feels tighter the closer you get to the core. I've ordered a fresh roll for tomorrow and will try again. In the mean time , if any of you have any top tips for improving alignment on double sided jobs I'd be very grateful.

If it helps, I'm using RL7 and the image is centred on the media.

Apologies for the UK spellings and metric measurements.

What printer are you using? Our latex 570 I'd prefer to play in traffic over printing a 2-sided banner. Our Agfa we run 2-sided banners on a weekly basis with no problem and can generally staying around an 1/8" front to back registration.

 

[JardeRich]

What printer are you using? Our latex 570 I'd prefer to play in traffic over printing a 2-sided banner. Our Agfa we run 2-sided banners on a weekly basis with no problem and can generally staying around an 1/8" front to back registration.

I'm using a Mimaki UJV100-160. Previously I've produced several 7.5 metre (24ft) double-sided banners and only experienced "stretch" of around 1" on the 2nd side. I'm currently getting a third as much stretch on about a fifth of the print length.
Spoke with my supplier yesterday - they suggested a couple of things, the most probable of which was the print from the first side was having an impact on the feed rollers ability to hold the media.
When my fresh roll of media arrives today I'll take another look.

 

[Ahmed Samy Nagada]

It's almost impossible to get it aligned perfectly for millions of reasons including deformation of substrate after first side is printed. So virtually you won't get it 100% accurate without the aid of software built to do that.
We do this by adding bleed of at least 1% of trim dimensions, that gives us enough tolerance when trimming .

 

[JardeRich]

It's almost impossible to get it aligned perfectly for millions of reasons including deformation of substrate after first side is printed. So virtually you won't get it 100% accurate without the aid of software built to do that.
We do this by adding bleed of at least 1% of trim dimensions, that gives us enough tolerance when trimming .

I agree re' not getting perfect alignment - it's just in this instance the degree to which it's misaligned is far greater than I've previously encountered.
My new roll of banner material has now arrived, and I'm interested to see if that works better than the roll end I was using yesterday.

 

[GAC05]

That seems like a good deal of stretch on such a short banner. Like some of the others, I add a 1/2" of extra bleed to the second side and then trim to the 1st. Keeps me out of trouble most times.

 

[Ahmed Samy Nagada]

That seems like a good deal of stretch on such a short banner. Like some of the others, I add a 1/2" of extra bleed to the second side and then trim to the 1st. Keeps me out of trouble most times.

Great tip. Thanks for sharing

 

[JardeRich]

So I've run a couple of banners yesterday afternoon from the new roll of media, and the alignment was much improved. I unwound the remnants on the old roll of media and this was very tight - there was no air between the layers on the roll and I had to apply pressure to get it to unwind across my bench. I suspect this was causing the first side to not advance enough during printing. Once unwound and then rewound for the second side, the tension was reduced and the media was advanced normally. I guess the way to test the theory would be to put the old roll back on (having now been unwound and rewound) and run another banner.

 

[Z SIGNS]

Never understood why you would want to make a double sided banner.. Why not just print 2 banners and stick em together?

 

[Pauly]

Never understood why you would want to make a double sided banner.. Why not just print 2 banners and stick em together?

That's what im saying, It's easier, cheaper and faster.
Seriously a waste of time of some of the hoops and loops some people jump though to do double sided.

unless your printer can do double sided, where you'd get the printed roll and reload it the other way, find the barcode or indicator etc and the printer lines it up for you.

 

[zillion29]

We had an old HP 26500 and I was made to understand when I took over from the former guy that double sided banners were just a headache and should be ordered. But when we got a 560 and Onyx 21, I was feeling like a major player and was down for the challenge. The HP tutorials (by the guy I refer to as Fatty McBeardsworth) were hilarious as he does his usual customary dancing around how many points of failure are built into this process. Set the printer for side a, make a quickset for side a, make a quickset for side b at a different DPI because there's probably going to be deformity. Don't flip side B in job editor because the software is going to flip it even though it displays unflipped.
Did it work? Yeah. Did it work in a way that I'd want to integrate into the normal flow of the shop? Hells no. The only reason I can see to do it is taking a job that someone needs in a pinch and can't be outsourced. It IS better than gluing/stitching two banners together, though.

 

[zillion29]

That seems like a good deal of stretch on such a short banner. Like some of the others, I add a 1/2" of extra bleed to the second side and then trim to the 1st. Keeps me out of trouble most times.

This is a great idea!

 

[highrolling24]

IDK I just did 4 ds pocket banners for the VFW this last week because of a time crunch, by the time I recreated their artwork it was late and I couldn't wait a week so I tried it for the first time on my Roland VG2 and set it up like Gaco5 said with a 1/2" bleed I was off maybe 1/4" width wize and only 1/8" length on the first one so then I just ran 3 more but by the second side grew by 1 1/4" but luckily I ran the top and bottom extra by an inch I just made it to sew them just had little extra white on one side so I sewed that down, Talked to the banner place and they said I should wait a day to outgas then print the other side because I print with eco solvent and the solvent loosens the banner material, I did run them back to back and they did feel a little soft and extra flexible, maybe next time, I printed a bunch of single sided banners also so the job was worth the risk and little extra time, I did think about just printing two banners but glad I didn't because that would have been alot more square footage, flip it and its just a little more ink, yea banner material is cheap but when you run alot it adds up. Just make sure you have the same width on your pinch rollers so when you flip it that its the same from side to side and I advanced it to the bottom of my heat paten to line up the front edge, worked like a charm exept the extra length on the second side, maybe I only run two at a time next time.

UltraFlex Double Sided Pole Banner PRO 18oz​

 

[stickerhed]

I print double sided banners on my HP365 all the time. I also add bleed to the 2nd side just in case. The reason a sign professional wouldn't print 2 regular banners and put them back to back is that regular banner material is translucent and side 2 interferes with the legibility of the front side when any light is behind it. (like the sun) If you are going to put 2 banners back to back please use blockout banner.