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Anyone on Mac use Little Snitch?

Discussion in 'General Software' started by WildWestDesigns, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I've been hearing of a scary rumor that has come out along with the latest woeful new OS release that Apple seems to be having the last few OS releases.

    Apparently with Big Sur, no longer able to block system level network telemetry requests. And from what I'm reading, this information doesn't just stay with Apple, nor is it encrypted.

    In theory, this could prevent one to run any program that Apple (or whomever has Apple's ear) doesn't want to be opened.

    Tinfoil hat ish, perhaps. But given everything going on with right to repair, what's going on with Silicon, I actually wouldn't be surprised.
     
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  2. GAC05

    GAC05 Major Contributor

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    Louis Rossmann - the Ben Shapiro of Apple product repair. Good stuff.
    Does this mean those shiny new M1- chipped super macs can't be booted or run without an internet connection?
     
  3. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    This is all about logging from what I can tell, which to me is no bueno, especially after shelling all that much. The fear is, that the logging could turn it to some type of control (which the tech is possible to do that and this is something that one really can't do much about on the machine, might be able to limit it with external hardware, I could set policies here that might block it, but the average Mac customer probably doesn't nor inclination to do so, a lot of people have regrettably stopped caring)

    I did read another article that the 1st line with these chips (the Air) you are limited to 16GBs (not surprising since it's the Air), but no eGPU. I hope that changes for Mac customers, especially if Apple targets other lines, but it's also quite possible that it won't. After all, this brand has been going down the rabbit hole of everything being clamped down. Have to remember they believe in "The customer doesn't know what they want until you tell them" line of thinking.

    So I wouldn't necessarily call it a "super Mac" even in jest.
     
  4. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    Google Chromebooks already do this, it's also in preview on windows machines too.
     
  5. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    The telemetry of Windows has already been obnoxious long before now (the telemetry and forced updates is what sealed my switching platforms years ago to business computers, not just my personal ones that I had already switched platforms before then, thankfully not to Mac). Anything Google, I wouldn't expect otherwise from the get go.

    Here is the huge problem, Macs are the supposed premium product (and they used to have as selling points privacy and security and yet you get less for shelling out exceptionally more nowadays. That really is disturbing. There is virtually nothing extra that you get for the extra bucks except having the brand. I guess hipster cred is worth the premium price.

    Having communication ports wide open (encrypted or otherwise) that I can't control and it can deem what I can or can't launch on my own computer. That's not good. That decision isn't for them and knowing all those details isn't for them either. While I still wouldn't have liked it, at least an opt out or some other shut off ability would be preferable then having to use 3rd party hardware. It reminds me when the old Host file hacks to keep Windows from automatically updating actually worked. Some things should not be left up to 3rd parties. Just shouldn't be.

    But with that, I'll slink back in my cave with my tinfoil hat on now.
     
  6. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    You can opt out, don't buy a mac. You are a linux guy, stick with that to avoid these issues.
     
  7. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    I could agree to that, if these things were known up front by the customers before they bought their computers, to make a fully informed decision or not and if they still bought it, well that's on them. It looks like this was only found out due to the server issues that people were having that also coincided with their release of this new OS (how is that for irony, I don't really recall a new OS upgrade that didn't have some type of issue with it's release from them in recent years).

    Remember those that got the updates and had this happen with Big Sur, didn't originally buy their computer with this type of backdoor. So they bought it before all of this happened.

    You know what this scenario reminds of, it was like that deal with comcast where those that had a router for both wired and wireless, there was/is this option that other comcast customers could (with their own login creds) use your wireless if they were within range to connect. Now, this could be disabled, but it had to be disabled. Comcast made this claim that only 1% of their customers didn't like this, because that was the amount that opted out. My counter to that is, how many actually knew about it in the first place to be able to make the decision if they wanted to opt out or not?

    This also reminds me, more explicitly with a certain Win 10 update that castrated the Pro users from being able to handle their updates (and this included Enterprise customers, just not to the same degree) like they originally could. So even at that, it's not as clear cut as "Oh you bought it and you should have known or at least thought about it back then".

    Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that all this is another reason to hold off getting the latest update when it comes out, sometimes it doesn't always pay to be on the latest and greatest. Let some one else be the test subject.
     
  8. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    Apple's computers will become completely irrelevant for sign industry design work once their transition to their own ARM-based CPUs is finished. The Windows OS may have its ongoing problems, but nevertheless it is the ONLY platform sign companies can use on any kind of practical basis. Nearly all of the industry specific software made for the sign industry runs exclusively on Windows. The Caldera RIP for MacOS is pretty much by itself as a sole exception.

    Adobe will definitely recompile its applications to run natively on Apple's ARM-based CPUs. I think it's a big question whether Corel will do the same for the Mac version of CorelDRAW. I think the Corel development team is stretched thin; they can't even get the current Intel/MacOSX version completely rid of bugs and performance issues. I do not expect the companies that make Flexi, SignLab, Gerber Omega, Onyx, etc to release Mac versions of their applications while the MacOS platform is split on Intel and ARM based variants. They're going to stay put on Windows for years to come until the dust settles on Apple's transition. Even at that point they may stay put with Windows-only.

    And it's not like the Windows platform is without competition. AMD is really kicking some serious @$$ lately with its Ryzen CPUs. Their latest 5000 series CPUs, particularly the Ryzen 9 5900X and 5950X, are very impressive. Meanwhile Intel, oddly, is still trying to squeeze out more product from its outdated 14 nanometer process. It's only a matter of time before the biggest PC manufacturers stop using Intel's CPUs exclusively. I think the next 12-18 months is going to be a tough time for Intel. If Intel had been more aggressive with improving its CPU product lines in both the manufacturing process and improving the performance per watt ratio they might have not lost Apple as a customer and see AMD breathing down their necks.

    Apple sells electronics products as fashion items, digital jewelry to show off at the coffee shop. That is the primary emphasis. When you get down into the nuts and bolts of it Mac-based products do not compare well at all with many Windows-based alternatives, especially when you're going to dial it down to a dollars-to-performance ratio. Macs are a waste of money.

    I really HATE Apple's notebooks. They may work well and get a very good balance of battery life and performance. But Apple price gouges the living hell out of the customer to get any kind of a decent configuration. And you have to buy any upgrades up front for an extreme high price. There is no upgrading anything later since the RAM and everything else is soldered into the motherboard. Many Windows-based notebooks can be opened by the user so they can at least replace RAM, hard drives or SSDs pretty easily and for a lot less money than it costs buying the upgrades up front. I can take a mid-tier Dell XPS 17 notebook costing around $2500 and spend just a few hundred bucks to boost it to something that would cost around $5000 for the same thing in a 16" MacBook Pro.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
  9. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Their (Corel) mistake (and this is the route that Autodesk did with a few of their products, in fact with the same framework I'm going to mention) was doing a GUI from scratch with a platform that I doubt they have much expertise with. Using something like Qt (either QWidgets or QtQuick like AutoDesk uses) would make it one codebase for all platforms (if use QtQuick, this would also be for your embedded, mobile and web(praise be WASM (I've seen negligible difference between my C++/Qt apps versus html/css/js/WASM apps, this is what also helps AutoCAD in the browser as well)). C++ itself is portable (make a CLI base C++ program and can port it with no changes on all of the platforms, even ARM), it's hooking into the GUI API that is what screws people. Use a framework. Qt isn't cheap for those that take the commercial version, but it is perhaps the most robust of the GUI frameworks out there for C++. That's what Corel should have done.

    If they used QWidgets (which just targets all desktop/laptop platforms), that would actually use the native API to draw the widgets, so it would look more suited for the platform (I think this is a holdover and shouldn't be a consideration in today's software world, this is stuck in the 90s thinking). QtQuick would give them more platform options (both target all desktop/laptop platforms) while maintaining a more manageable single codebase.

    And I have to tell you, it's exceptionally easy writing a C++ gui program using Qt, they really have abstracted a lot of the really low level stuff. QtQuick using QML for the GUI (think CSS, declarative language, which most GUIs are going to, I actually prefer CSS, which is why I'm doing more with WASM) and can either use C++ or JS for the logic. Very, very easy to work with.


    I wouldn't either, those OEMs don't have the same clientele for their products that Apple is targeting. They may get a few of the designers that are also in control of the production computers in some capacity, but I doubt that would be enough to warrant a whole new platform addition.
     
  10. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    WildWeast and Bobby H sound like Chris Cuomo and Don Lemon bashing Trump and giving out facts about Macs and software.
    I have always owned Macs, from MacPlus to Powerbook Pro laptops. I remember years ago in the sign industry at trade shows everything was Windows based green screens and tech nerds from Kansas telling you how you had to have their programs to succeed in the sign world. I had to run special cutting software, SignPost, to run my plotter. I bought an Apple LaserWriter to output art. All the while these Gerber guys were stuck with fonts they would stretch and cram unto a sign face.
    I used my MacPlus with fonts to do advertising work and luckily that part of the artworld embraced the Macs. while sign guys were looking at trade mags for inspiration. Adobe geared their software towards Mac users and then the greenscreeners were making their computer setups and bragging how fast and could do anything machines better than a Mac. I stuck with the Mac over all these years, maybe I have spent more money on them compared to Windows. WildWest tells the story of his Memaw and wife with Apple laptops and has based his conclusion on the bad taste in his mouth that someone would sell a bad product to his Memaw. Bobby H starts telling you about demons in the new Apple software and they will destroy you and your business. I am on the ground and using Shiraz RIP on a Mac Powerbook that runs my Mutoh with fantastic results, I had Flexi RIP and even purchased a cheap Windows laptop to run it for my printer. Talk about crap, Flexi and that Windows based laptop was like riding a bike with training wheels. Like leaving your loving good looking wife for some CrackWhore you met in line at 7/11 to buy lotto tickets. Dumped both of those, Flexi and Windows laptop and went back to my loving Mac who forgave me for being foolish.
    Sure, Apple is putting new chips in their computers, its new and change is unsettling and frightening but it is not some demon Bobby H talks about. I will adapt to the new things, always have, I plan on buying the second generation of PowerBooks after Apple works out the kinks.
    Please WildWest and Bobby, don't make this a quote and back and forth over laptops and software. Just go put on your Avengers costumes and stand in front of the mirror to see how smart and powerful you are and wait for a fight that will save the world and not try to convince me not to purchase a Mac.
     
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  11. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Johnny, first off, my mom loved her Mac laptop and she had it for 10 yrs.

    It was my wife that had the kernel overheat issue (well know for the 1st gen MacAirs) and some issue with her MacBook Pro that we just leave languishing around here. I would appreciate getting my experiences right if you are going to use them on the offense.

    Secondly, I loved the Mac back in the 80s (my first computer was a Mac back then as well). Had one in the late 2000s as well (dad couldn't handle Vista, tried Mac, that lasted all of 3 wks (NOW he isn't much on change). I didn't want to see a new computer go out in the trash, so I used it for a few yrs with the original OS, now it has Linux on it. I put Linux on it as it was no longer able handle updates. Not for any negative reason, just to put the kibosh on that theory, if it starts to brew.



    Bobby didn't start with this. I'm one that tends to be anti Mac, I think that there was a time or two he actually defending some of the Mac products that he uses.

    Every OS OEM out there has their issues. Software OEMs too (why the EULA for every bit of software out there has the line "as is". There is just this fanaticism with Macs that it just works (and when it doesn't, one of the early steps that it appears to be is that it's blamed on the owners or that its not enough of their customer base to worry about; that's just how it appears to me).

    And to me, considering Apple has a very lockdown walled garden approach (contrary to the fragmentation that you see in Linux and Windows), that means that Apple should be held at a higher standard then the others.

    I'm more of a Caldera on Linux person my self, but to each their own.

    One thing is for sure, don't have the training wheels feeling like you do on Windows and Mac (yes, you do get training wheels for Mac as well).

    Why does everyone go to that right off the bat. Your talking to someone that not only switched to a platform and workflow software at the drop of the hat, but also went to a platform that has less then 5% of the desktop market share, which means that scary new OS, everything has to be figured out by the user. Change in of itself, is not my main issue.


    This isn't a kink like their keyboard design issues (which they still haven't worked out to my knowledge, and I think that there is also a wiring issue that still hasn't been worked out that Louis is always prattling on about, even though Apple is well aware of it.

    Just like the telemetry in Windows isn't a kink in it.

    At least not what I started talking about in this thread here.

    Keep in mind, this also affects people that upgrade to the latest version of their OS. This "kink" still exists. It's software not hardware.

    Kinda like an update in Windows that added forced updates and telemetry to Win 7 and Win 8.1, which was baked in to Win 10.


    I guess I should start to put a trigger warning on my posts that I start in the General Software section.

    While I do have my issues with Mac and personally wouldn't get one unless there was no other viable option, the actual main purpose was to inform. How many people on here actually keep up with everything? Sure some do, but what % is that of this forum's userbase? I would suspect most on here are "normies", nothing wrong with that, just the way that it is.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  12. Christian @ 2CT Media

    Christian @ 2CT Media Major Contributor

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    The big thing that everyone is skipping over is that computing is changing. SaaS is molding in to Cloud Launch. Apples ARM conversion is them getting ahead of the curve to beckon the change to ThinClient computing.

    Just look at gaming with GeForce Now, Stadia, and Xbox Cloud Pass... If those high resource processes can run 100% in the cloud, our productivity software can too.
     
  13. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    You only sound like an angry jerk (a Trump-worshiping jerk apparently) throwing out ad hominem jabs at me and WW.

    You can't refute fact hardly any sign industry specific software runs on the Mac platform. You can't refute the fact Apple butt-rapes its customers at the checkout. You can't refute the fact Apple's notebooks, among other things, are not upgradeable at all after purchase. Because you have no come-back for any of those specifics you resort to tossing out personal insults and prop up strawmen: "Bobby H starts telling you about demons in the new Apple software and they will destroy you and your business." Kiss my @$$ Johnny.
     
  14. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Aahhh yes, my other favorite topic.

    However, my main stink is about telemetry and not really about the low specs of the device itself.

    That's a contentious issue with gamers as well. Combine that with all the other penny anny charges that have been put upon them, some aren't really all that happy. When ever I release games for purchase (not my game jams), I always have a downloadable copy.

    AutoCAD is already available in the browser. Same as Godot. It's called WASM (or Web Assembly) that makes this possible. I've mentioned it before and how negligible the difference is between totally native programs (well with me it's Qt/C++ native programs) and WASM based programs and the huge difference between straight JS versus WASM programs. WASM allows for C/C++ (I use emscripten, so I deal with these languages), RUST, JAVA etc to compile to the web.

    However, despite WASM, still have to have plenty of resources, especially when trying to multitask.

    Don't get me wrong, I've said it before and I'll say it again, if going to SaaS software, I would much rather it been browser based (or maybe even Electron, really same thing) that way it didn't matter a lick as to what platform I'm using. That's why there is one Adobe program available for Linux because it's Electron based (and you can still use WASM with electron as well).

    Keep in mind though, interacting with the file system and other low level processes aren't as easily able to be done in the browser due to CORs.

    Now, having said that WASM is still relatively new and not all the kinks are out of it yet, so it isn't perfect, I think it will take a couple of more years, but it's getting there.

    I've even started porting some of the software that I wrote in C++/Qt to HTML/CSS/JS/WASM, so I really don't have a problem with going this route. It's the telemetry that I don't like. The walled garden that I don't like. The ability not to do anything with the physical good that I actually still purchased (no way at Apple prices is that leasing for the right to use their product). That's more of what I'm in a tirade over.

    Biggest reason why I use the software that I do is because I have options. I really dislike the lack of options from a consumer's point of view. Having said that, I can certainly understand why they are doing it from a business perspective, still doesn't mean that as a consumer I'm all that fond of it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  15. Johnny Best

    Johnny Best Very Active Member

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    Yep I think Bobby H is Don Lemon because he would love me to kiss his a$$ and then he uses big words like ad hominem!
    Sorry Bobby H, I like Macs, have run my sign business for many successful year's using their platform.
     
  16. WildWestDesigns

    WildWestDesigns Major Contributor

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    Look, you like Macs, great. Continue to use them. They do have their issues (and again the main thrust of this thread originally was about telemetry, not about their hardware), but it doesn't bother you, haven't had them, that's fine. Good for you. Doesn't mean that those issues don't exist.

    I know Bobby puts me through the wringer when I go on and on about Linux. He is entitled to that opinion to have. And I can promise you, I'm in a far more minority pool then you are as far as what platforms we use.

    Have to realize that when your out in a public venue (physical or virtual), going to get a diversity of thought (at least while we are able to still have a diversity of thought) and you may not agree with that way of thinking. It happens.

    Just ignore the thread and/or ignore the contributors to that thread, if it bothers you that much. You chose to participate in this thread, you certainly were fully aware of how Bobby and I tend to be and yet still you chose to participate.

    I missed the political attack there, if you look at my previous posts on topics of that nature (if they are still around), you might get a better indication of where I stand, but considering you didn't get my mom's experience correct with her Mac, maybe not. I dunno.
     
  17. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    Hmmm, I don't have a dog in this fight, but I find it fascinating to see/hear people discussing the downsides of certain software, manufactures or just plain user use..... of certain things and then to call out someone defending it, because they used if for decades, pounced upon him with this 'over used' bullsh!t of ad hominem crap, is just priceless. Comparing either of you to some news caster is now considered an invalid claim upon you or your statements ?? How thin-skinned is that ?? It's actual very childish, but then, my opinions or observations don't count, but I can tell ya, there's a lotta other people feeling the same way with these silly accusations being thrown around, like that has any meaning. Again, in my humble opinion, his statements did not do anything to invalidate you or your views. He just told his story and as usual added some color to the post. His last statement was dead balls on. You both came back after him. Ya can't let things go. Ya hafta always get the last word in, like a buncha geek puter nerds playing. Being socially stunted has made it quite obvious you probably are good at world of witchcraft or black desert.... just like you are with your computers for work.

    Have fun.....................​
     
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  18. Bobby H

    Bobby H Very Active Member

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    Johnny Best's comments are "invalid" because they were only personal attacks. And your response, filed with personal insults and judgement, isn't any better.

    Johnny did ZERO to refute any of the factual things I said about Apple's notebooks and other overpriced products as well as the fact hardly any sign industry specific software runs on MacOS. Instead of trying to debate those points Johnny resorted to personal attacks instead. When he did actually try to talk about computers he took a trip on the way-back machine and brought up badly outdated comparisons of old Gerber plotters with plug-in cartridge fonts (I assume he was talking about a SignMaker IVB). He didn't talk about what is relevant today.
     
  19. Notarealsignguy

    Notarealsignguy Very Active Member

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    Yawn......
     
  20. Gino

    Gino Premium Subscriber

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    I think you just like to argue and unless that's what you're doing, you're not happy. My suggestion would be to take a 2 month course with Robert and learn to listen and hone your listening skills. Perhaps your comprehension abilities will get better, too. I seriously invite you to call Robert and ask him about his different programs which could seriously do you some good. Get you off that cyber keyboard throwing all those silly notions around. What did you call them ad hominem ?? Sheesh...... get a new line. o_O

    Listen bobby h..... if this kinda stuff is bothering you to the point of writing this nonsense, I might make some other better suggestions for you, but I really cannot write them out here. I can't PM them to you, either, or you'll claim I'm bothering you both on the boards and behind the scenes. I see a pattern here and I'm afraid you really need to confer with Robert a little bit. Give it a try, please do.
     
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