James Burke
Being a grandpa is more fun than working
Which is better....Corel Draw or Adobe Illustrator?
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WildWestDesigns
Active Member
Are we talking about legit copies or "cracked" versions?
WildWestDesigns
Active Member
I've only done it once and I can say it hasn't happened to me either. I can't say the same for everyone, I do know of a couple that it has happened to. Doesn't give you much recourse either if it doesn't go your way originally.
I'm just one of those that likes to make sure my bases are covered and be prepared. Otherwise, it can "bite" you in the end.
Gino
Premium Subscriber
I knew quite a few people in this sorta thing and many of them belonged to a 'Barter' organization. They wanted me to join. This was back in the 80's and things haven't changed much, since. So, I looked at it for a few weeks and was asked to make signs for this place and that place and got leads on other places, but how many vacuum cleaners can I take in payment.... or how many free meals can I eat greasy food.... or how many filing cabinets, desks and chairs do I need....... how many times can my wife get her nails manicured ?? That list just went on and on...... however, you would receive 'Barter Dollars' and could exchange with anyone within your group with your extra leftover 'Barter Dollars'. I talked to a few people where I wanted to barter and they would say.... we're full right now, we can't take your 'Barter Dollars', but we'll take your real money. Now, this REAL money is what I needed to buy groceries with or get my car or truck fixed. This REAL money is what paid the bills that kept coming in which "Barterland' wasn't doing anything about. This play money was a joke and so is bartering for the most part.
While the government completely allows bartering to go on as long as you handle it like a business and don't hide this chit under the table and ruin it for everyone else..... it still doesn't eventually pays the essentials. That's why I said, if there is something I want, like a snow-blower, tractor or whatever.... I will negotiate it where it is good for me and if the other guy wants to..... well then he must think he's making a good deal also.
The biggest thing I bartered for was a hot-tub, which included the installation, chemicals for two years and a 5 year warranty, which we then agreed to for 10 years. We still have the hot-tub and their sign is still looking great. That was in 1996. However, in all of our bartering deals, it was handled professionally and on the books, so no one got into any trouble.
While the government completely allows bartering to go on as long as you handle it like a business and don't hide this chit under the table and ruin it for everyone else..... it still doesn't eventually pays the essentials. That's why I said, if there is something I want, like a snow-blower, tractor or whatever.... I will negotiate it where it is good for me and if the other guy wants to..... well then he must think he's making a good deal also.
The biggest thing I bartered for was a hot-tub, which included the installation, chemicals for two years and a 5 year warranty, which we then agreed to for 10 years. We still have the hot-tub and their sign is still looking great. That was in 1996. However, in all of our bartering deals, it was handled professionally and on the books, so no one got into any trouble.
Wanna look like a back-alley pimp selling chit for nothing... keep doing it under the table, just don't advertise your methods and actions here and in hopes of some unsuspecting newbie will follow suit and maybe not get caught.... it's just a matter of time.... especially when you go around writing about it 
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J
john1
Guest
I'll leave the barter stuff to you guys, I'm in this business to pay my bills and make money. The restaurant is like a hour away and i'm sure it will be on restaurant impossible soon anyway lol
David Wright
New Member
I did the barter organization all through the 80s. Gino is correct on a lot of points especially those that wouldn't trade when they accumulated too many trade bucks. Why? They were hard to unload in big quantities and many members developed an insider network of people they would trade with.
For me, after learning the ropes and staying away from businesses that would have trade prices compared to cash prices. It was against policy buy with certain businesses easy to do.
In the end it was good for my meager years and allowed us to get certain products and services for the business, eat out when times were tough and even found an ex member who traded me for electronics and appliances at real prices.
Now I find I don't need it but will trade one on one if it may be a lost sale or something really needed.
For me, after learning the ropes and staying away from businesses that would have trade prices compared to cash prices. It was against policy buy with certain businesses easy to do.
In the end it was good for my meager years and allowed us to get certain products and services for the business, eat out when times were tough and even found an ex member who traded me for electronics and appliances at real prices.
Now I find I don't need it but will trade one on one if it may be a lost sale or something really needed.
GypsyGraphics
New Member
not a fan of bartering... buy my services, if and when you need them, and i'll do the same.
twice when i agreed to barter arrangements, the problem ended up being that i didn't need the other person's service for a long time. their business were struggling and they couldn't afford my services, but buy the time i needed their services they were doing well and they're prices had nearly doubled.
i certainly understand material costs going up but expected the service price to be set at the time they used my services.
in one of those two instances... the other person's services were not worth the higher price and i never used them, in the other case i paid the doubled price.
twice when i agreed to barter arrangements, the problem ended up being that i didn't need the other person's service for a long time. their business were struggling and they couldn't afford my services, but buy the time i needed their services they were doing well and they're prices had nearly doubled.
i certainly understand material costs going up but expected the service price to be set at the time they used my services.
in one of those two instances... the other person's services were not worth the higher price and i never used them, in the other case i paid the doubled price.
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threeputt
New Member
You mean motel owners and convenience store owners?
Quoting yet another person on the forums putting it in public that they're a tax cheat. Cheers
As for bartering itself...I'll barter with you by exchanging my goods and services for tokens which can be exchanged for your goods and services. For convenience let's use the tokens known as "US Currency".
gabagoo
New Member
I used to belong to a barter exchange in the 90's.
If you have a business wherby you have a warehouse full of goods that are not moving or you perform a service then barter can work quite well for you.
If you are in the sign business and everything you do is custom then it just does not work out all that well.
It really depends on just how far you will go to spend those dollars. usually everything is overpriced or inconveniently so far away that it makes no sense to make the deal.
I found that everyone wanted signs but the things I needed were not available. Sure I got my carpets cleaned twice a year and ate at plenty of nice restaurants ( best deal in barter), but materials were just not available and if they ever were the price was absolutley ridiculous.
I blew the money on things I didn't really need or paid so high a price for them just to move the $$$.
The bad thing about a legitimate barter exchange is that the barter company itself charged you real money (7% on the sale and 7% on the buy) and you had to pay up by 30 days or they put your account on hold.
For a small, new business it puts a strain on your cash flow and can hurt more than you realize.
I also used to use the barter $$$ for work around my house. We had moved to a new house and it needed landscaping so I paid $15,000 for interlocking and a pond plus all my shrubery. This was a really nice job done by the contractor but it was overpriced and on top of that it was not a business expense and I had to pay tax dollars on it. That was a big lesson learned.
After that, I only traded for what could be considered a 100% write off or at least a business expense.
the best day for me was the day I quit, I blew about $20,000 on anything I could just to be rid of it.
What i realized after about 6 months of being out of barter.... was that my business account was doing great and I had more money to spend on things that I could negotiate a proper price for..... things i truly needed!!
I think barter exchanges have their place but only certain types of companies can really benefit from it.
The final purchase I made was for a foosball table, a real one that would be in pool halls and it was in Chicago and was about $900.00. The kicker was that it would cost me $300.00 to ship it and that had to be paid in cash. I bit the bullett and did it as I had just finished my basement and needed some toys. I paid the $300.00 when it arrived but the best part was the company I bought it from never put the sale through so I got the table for the shipping price and blew the last $900 on something else.
The bottom line with barter is that you get what you can.... but you dont always get what you want.
I have also done tradeoffs with customers, but I always found that it was never me who would initiate the deal. My theory is that when I need something, I go out and buy it. Thats the way I do business, plain and simple.
If you have a business wherby you have a warehouse full of goods that are not moving or you perform a service then barter can work quite well for you.
If you are in the sign business and everything you do is custom then it just does not work out all that well.
It really depends on just how far you will go to spend those dollars. usually everything is overpriced or inconveniently so far away that it makes no sense to make the deal.
I found that everyone wanted signs but the things I needed were not available. Sure I got my carpets cleaned twice a year and ate at plenty of nice restaurants ( best deal in barter), but materials were just not available and if they ever were the price was absolutley ridiculous.
I blew the money on things I didn't really need or paid so high a price for them just to move the $$$.
The bad thing about a legitimate barter exchange is that the barter company itself charged you real money (7% on the sale and 7% on the buy) and you had to pay up by 30 days or they put your account on hold.
For a small, new business it puts a strain on your cash flow and can hurt more than you realize.
I also used to use the barter $$$ for work around my house. We had moved to a new house and it needed landscaping so I paid $15,000 for interlocking and a pond plus all my shrubery. This was a really nice job done by the contractor but it was overpriced and on top of that it was not a business expense and I had to pay tax dollars on it. That was a big lesson learned.
After that, I only traded for what could be considered a 100% write off or at least a business expense.
the best day for me was the day I quit, I blew about $20,000 on anything I could just to be rid of it.
What i realized after about 6 months of being out of barter.... was that my business account was doing great and I had more money to spend on things that I could negotiate a proper price for..... things i truly needed!!
I think barter exchanges have their place but only certain types of companies can really benefit from it.
The final purchase I made was for a foosball table, a real one that would be in pool halls and it was in Chicago and was about $900.00. The kicker was that it would cost me $300.00 to ship it and that had to be paid in cash. I bit the bullett and did it as I had just finished my basement and needed some toys. I paid the $300.00 when it arrived but the best part was the company I bought it from never put the sale through so I got the table for the shipping price and blew the last $900 on something else.
The bottom line with barter is that you get what you can.... but you dont always get what you want.
I have also done tradeoffs with customers, but I always found that it was never me who would initiate the deal. My theory is that when I need something, I go out and buy it. Thats the way I do business, plain and simple.
shakey0818
New Member
I agree 500%.Uncle sam can go screw himself!!!!
TyrantDesigner
Art! Hot and fresh.
i've done a few barters ... mostly "Sure, I do this, you do this" sort of deals that are labor only.
Otherwise I avoid it ... cost of someones signs in the long run are more expensive than anything they can offer me.
Otherwise I avoid it ... cost of someones signs in the long run are more expensive than anything they can offer me.
FireSprint.com
Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
We barter all the time and love it. It's really not for everyone, but it works for us. We use TradeBank and also barter straight up from time to time. We get restaurant gift cards and give them to friends, family employees etc.
Just a side note on the tax cheat comments. In no way do I advocate cheating on your taxes....Uncle Sam has thousands of IRS agents, GE has 500 tax 'advisors', Fortune 500 companies have lobbyists. Banks and other giant entities and get their fair share of subsidies and bailouts. Small businesses like 99% of those represented on this forum have one superhero to protect them, their vigilant, hard working, honest living business owners.
Just a side note on the tax cheat comments. In no way do I advocate cheating on your taxes....Uncle Sam has thousands of IRS agents, GE has 500 tax 'advisors', Fortune 500 companies have lobbyists. Banks and other giant entities and get their fair share of subsidies and bailouts. Small businesses like 99% of those represented on this forum have one superhero to protect them, their vigilant, hard working, honest living business owners.
FireSprint.com
Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
Obviously channel letters cost more than a months worth of burgers. The guy doesn't have enough worth bartering for. Of course, that's why you barter by dollar value of the items, not by weight.
I don't really get comments like 'sign materials vs food" though. You make it sound like they're making bank while you don't make jack. If that's the case, why are you in the sign business. There is no easy money, even though the restaurant business' food costs may be lower than sign material costs, it doesn't mean that the overall cost of doing business is lower. You don't get groceries from a restaurant, you get a hot meal, service, atmosphere etc. All of which cost money and many of those things don't come into your costs when you sell a sign.
Barter works, but just like running a profitable business, it takes practice. It's a bit like opening up a new branch in another country. You can't simply start doing the same things you've always done, you have to learn the market.
crowndesigns
New Member
how many times do you need your carpet cleaned.