Apple Mac Pro

[rjssigns]

Computer gurus.
I've been looking at 2012 vintage Apple Mac Pro's. Liking what I see since you can upgrade everything. Not like the soldered in place for life rigs Apple makes now.

But but but you can build a PC that will do backflips for mere pennies. Not an option
I need to tread both worlds. I teach at a local college and it's all Mac all the time.

With the correct upgrades performance is stunning. Doesn't seem to cost much either if you're careful buying parts.

If anyone has advice let's hear it.

 

[FrankW]

You can buy the new Mac Pro which should be available shortly. It will have 12 DIMM-slots (for up to 1.5TB RAM) and 8 PCI Express Extension Slots. Up to 28 Cores.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Computer gurus.
I've been looking at 2012 vintage Apple Mac Pro's. Liking what I see since you can upgrade everything. Not like the soldered in place for life rigs Apple makes now.

Don't forget the new T2 chips that are on the Macs now.

If you are using this as teaching as well, don't really know if using legacy to teach would be the best thing, but that does depend on what you are teaching as well. Depending on the subject matter, may not matter a bit if it's legacy or not.

Could always go Hackintosh (I'm not a particular fan, to me it's liked the Destroked Fords, what's the point), but there are groups dedicated for that. Apple isn't much of a fan of that though.

 

[bannertime]

I think the question still remains; but why?

Honestly, knowing the intended purpose for the machine would be helpful.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I really didn't decipher a question in your OP. What are you asking??

 

[rjssigns]

I think the question still remains; but why?

Honestly, knowing the intended purpose for the machine would be helpful.

The why is easy. They are easily upgradeable to perform with modern Macs without the heart attack price. They are more PC like and what Apple should have kept building. You can plug in graphics cards, ram, late model CPU's etc...just like a PC. CPU's are on a sled that you slide out after undoing two latches. Can also run the latest OS too.
Youtube has videos of people building the "obsolete" rigs. Benchmarks on par with 2019 Mac stuff at about a third to half the cost.

For teaching I need to run Adobe Ps, Ai and Id. That's it.

 

[rjssigns]

You can buy the new Mac Pro which should be available shortly. It will have 12 DIMM-slots (for up to 1.5TB RAM) and 8 PCI Express Extension Slots. Up to 28 Cores.

Specs are great and it would be new but not taking out a second mortgage. Don't need tons of power either. Was doing wraps up until last year with my 9 year old Core 2 Duo iMac until the graphics card started to go.

 

[rjssigns]

I really didn't decipher a question in your OP. What are you asking??

Looking for first hand information of someone that has one of the original Mac Pro's. Lots of places out there selling refurb/upgraded units now.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Youtube has videos of people building the "obsolete" rigs. Benchmarks on par with 2019 Mac stuff at about a third to half the cost.
.

It's no longer the same rig if you are gutting it and creating a sleeper. The innards not being the same changes it from being obsolete or not.

It sounds more and more like a Hackintosh to me. That's the way that I would go if doing all this. Still could come out cheaper. Catalina may or may not still be looking for that T2 chip, so there may have to be a work around, but using an old Mac shell or using a "pure" Hackintosh would present the same problem in that regard if it it's looking for that chip on a new install. Upgrade may be something different.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Can also run the latest OS too.

I just took a look, for the Mac Pros, it has to be 2013 and later to run Catalina.

 

[bannertime]

I honestly can't see a way that the machine would be anywhere near new gen Mac Pro. The CPU is nearly a decade old, the ram is limited to like 1066Mhz DDR3, the compatible (out of the box) GPUs are limited to like GT680s and below. For a workstation, it's probably okay, like "here's how to use the pen tool, now trace this aluminum can" level of power. My current machine production machine is a 2015 Dell XPS 8700 with an i7-4790, GT720, ddr3 1600Mhz RAM which is higher spec than what I listed for the Mac and the benchmark results wouldn't even be visible compared to new gen Mac Pro.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

For a workstation, it's probably okay, like "here's how to use the pen tool, now trace this aluminum can" level of power.

I don't know, I wouldn't consider that workstation level. To me, true workstations always had Xeons in them. Attached is the specs of my main production rig.

 

[Johnny Best]

I took one of my MacBookPro (15" 2.2ghz) laptops and put a new SSD drive in with upgraded memory and loaded ElCapitan 10.11.6 OS on it and it runs like new. The ElCapitan is still free to download.
Going to update my other one which is a late 2013 with the same thing.
I use MacSales (OWC) for the upgrades, they have videos and tools to do installs.

 

[Bobby H]

The new Mac Pro tower is ridiculously over-priced for what's included in the tower. Let's not forget about the especially douchey $1000 computer monitor stand.

I don't even know what kind of customer Apple expects to buy this polished cheese grater, other than rich, modern-day Marie Antoinette types. For traditional Mac users the pricing seems deliberately punitive, as a way to force the mainstream Mac customer base to keep on buying iMacs and Mac Books. Apple is obviously not trying to sell to people who bought Mac towers from several years ago.

I don't think the new Mac Pro has any chance of invading the very high end niche spaces dominated by Windows-based and Linux-based workstations. The boxes in a render farm, data center or super computing system aren't made to be stylish. The only thing that matters is the guts inside. They'll stuff 2, 4 or more Xeon CPUs in there and multiple nVidia Quadro cards that run $5000 to $10000 each depending on the model (I saw $10000 prices on new GV100 cards).

All that aside, it would be interesting to see what kind of upgrading could be done with an old Mac tower.

 

[dypinc]

The new Mac Pro tower is not designed for the mainstream Mac customer base. It is obviously a business tool for those that need this kind of horsepower. I looked at similar priced hardware designed to run Window or Linux and didn't find much difference in price. Sure I can build a cheaper computer, but that hassle of trying to make a hackintos out of it is not worth the hassle for an everyday production machine. One also needs to consider the cost of maintain or the slowdown in workflow of a troublesome OS, and there is just not enough production software available for Linux at this point.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

The new Mac Pro tower is not designed for the mainstream Mac customer base. It is obviously a business tool for those that need this kind of horsepower.

The thing is, there is a certain level that Mac doesn't seem to have a foot hold in. And the price of this rig, as Bobby mentioned for what's in it, is targeted moreso that crowd, but one can shop around and do better just based solely on price.

One also needs to consider the cost of maintain or the slowdown in workflow of a troublesome OS,

Yea, like High Sierra and Catalina had the best starts out of the gate even on officially supported rigs. All OSs have their quirks over their lifespan. Alicia dealt with kernel overheating on her Mac laptop (a known issue). That was with Apple having complete control over software and hardware. That could have possibly been mitigated if one had control over their components (or had more official options available to them).

and there is just not enough production software available for Linux at this point.

Depends on what your needs are. While I did start off VMing what I needed in a Windows VM, I haven't needed Windows in a few yrs. Granted as Bobby and I have always eloquently discussed, not everyone's needs aren't the same. So it always does depend.

If one truly has to have Adobe, that would be the biggest hold out. If one doesn't truly have to have Adobe, there are alternatives. May have to learn a different workflow to master them, but there are alternatives. I would say the 2nd biggest hold out would be a RIP program. There is one that runs on Linux as well as Mac, if needing a RIP program.

While Mac's are no where near my favorite list, I wouldn't suggest switching given what the OPs needs/wants are and I do know that he wants Adobe on there (and I doubt wants to VM Windows to get it otherwise (or dual boot)).

 

[Bobby H]

The new Mac Pro tower is not designed for the mainstream Mac customer base. It is obviously a business tool for those that need this kind of horsepower. I looked at similar priced hardware designed to run Window or Linux and didn't find much difference in price.

The difference with configuring a professional workstation tower from HP, Dell and other vendors of that sort is the price balloons up based on the CPUs, graphics boards, ECC RAM and other stuff that goes inside the case. The price isn't inflated based on the styling of its outside or the freaking stand that hold a computer monitor! What is Apple going to start doing next? Inlaying diamonds and gold into the Apple logo? It's as if they're selling piece of fashion wear or jewelry rather than tools to get work done.

Sure I can build a cheaper computer, but that hassle of trying to make a hackintos out of it is not worth the hassle for an everyday production machine. One also needs to consider the cost of maintain or the slowdown in workflow of a troublesome OS, and there is just not enough production software available for Linux at this point.

Again, at the very high end levels of performance computing there are very specific market niches that are being served. Take motion picture visual effects for instance. That market is very dominated by Windows and Linux based setups. There are various reasons why, including Apple abandoning desktop tower products in favor of iMacs and notebooks several years ago. The most powerful graphics boards in existence do not run on Mac hardware. Windows and Linux were dominating the visual effects space well before Apple got on its fixation with iMacs. A bunch of that had to do with a greater amount of industry specific software available as well as more freedom to develop custom software.

Regarding the supposed reliability of OSX, that OS is not immune from having bugs. The OS is not immune from breaking other applications with half-baked updates either. Plus it's not immune from hacking either. It's not hard to find complaints in Adobe's user forums about an update of OSX causing issues with specific applications. The same is true at Corel's forums for the Mac version of CorelDRAW 2019.

I do own an iPad Pro, but I personally have zero use for a Mac-based system in my workplace since none of the sign industry specific software we use (Flexi, Onyx Thrive, Rasterlink Pro, EnRoute, etc) runs natively on OSX. That stuff runs only on Windows. Adobe's stuff run great on a Mac. CorelDRAW, at least in its current release, doesn't do so well.

 

[shoresigns]

Mac Pro sounds like serious overkill to me, if all you're doing is teaching Ai/Ps/Id. Why not a Macbook? Teaching graphic design would be a breeze on my 2 year old Macbook Air, that's still doing a fine job of running the latest CC updates.

 

[WildWestDesigns]

Teaching graphic design would be a breeze on my 2 year old Macbook Air, that's still doing a fine job of running the latest CC updates.

I wish I could say that the first gen Air treated my wife as kindly. It suffered from the very common issue of that generation of the kernel overheat.

The MacBook that she got to replace it also had an issue with it a year into her ownership (and she is a light weight user).

Where is my mom had her MacBook Pro for about 8 yrs, no complaints and was running Ps and Painter on it. So go figure.

as well as more freedom to develop custom software.

This is what actually cemented my liking of open source software (when I could use it without efficiency/performance sacrifice), is that customization and that's even throughout the OS as well. And that is also the ability to fix things as well (if inclined and able to do so) and I would include hardware fixes as well.

The driver support for Wacom is even better then what you get on Windows and Mac (especially for what I like to do with it, may not appeal to everyone) and it's highly configurable as well.

And sometimes it costs more to go open source as well. I've got an open source split keyboard, fully user serviceable and programmable and yet it cost almost 3 times as much as the bigger Apple keyboard (which is on par for other truly split keyboards). It's not always a cheap way to go.

Of course, what does one really expect from a company whose most cherished leader was once quoted as saying "a customer doesn't know what they want until you tell them".

 

[bannertime]

I don't know, I wouldn't consider that workstation level. To me, true workstations always had Xeons in them. Attached is the specs of my main production rig.

Interestingly the 2012 Mac Pro does come with an Xeon, but it was one that was released in 2009. It does stomp that years i5 in some aspects.

I'm running a i7 2600k and a gtx 1060, 16gb of ram, and an old 128 ssd.

Not a bad setup. I was really disappointed in Dell's decision to use the gt720 as it's a very weak card compared to other cards available. Will be upping it to a 1660ti and 16gb 1660Mhz ram soon(cause dell also only had 8gb of ram available). I'm still churning on hold hard drives. Haven't switched anything to SSDs yet. Because Windows 7 is end of life, I'm probably going to build a new machine to replace this one.