I have been placing vinyl Decals on Vans and find that I get Bubbles on occasion. I have no problem getting the bubbles out most of the time but they tend to leave a slight ripple sometimes. I was told to use a solution of half baby soap and half water to apply before my decal. will this get the bubbles out with a squeege easily? I have had nothing but great customer response with the work that I do but I would like to be better. I am very critical of my work and want the best for them. Any help would be appreciated.
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Application Fluids? What are they?
- Thread starter Conook
- Start date
Fred Weiss
Merchant Member
Someone is giving you bad information.
There are professional application fluids you can buy which come premixed to work properly. If using soappy water, the usual mix is about one teaspoon of baby shampoo to a quart of water. It is not used, however, to get bubbles out after you have applied the vinyl. Rather it is used to spray on the adhesive after removing the release liner to temporarily keep the adhesive from sticking. Once you squeegee it down and it dries, then you remove the transfer tape and you get a bubble free application.
There is considerable debate over these fluids with the majority of the guys and gals using them rarely or not using them at all. If you are getting bubbles you probably just need practice, or you may be getting bubbles in your transfer tape which then results in bubbles in your application, or you may need a squeegee that isn't worn down, or dozens of other reasons.
It is completely incorrect to attempt to force a bubble out by over-squeegeeing the vinyl. Once you've trapped the air you are only going to damage the install by continuing to squeegee it. The good news is that most films breathe enough that the bubbles will disappear on their own in a few days.
There are professional application fluids you can buy which come premixed to work properly. If using soappy water, the usual mix is about one teaspoon of baby shampoo to a quart of water. It is not used, however, to get bubbles out after you have applied the vinyl. Rather it is used to spray on the adhesive after removing the release liner to temporarily keep the adhesive from sticking. Once you squeegee it down and it dries, then you remove the transfer tape and you get a bubble free application.
There is considerable debate over these fluids with the majority of the guys and gals using them rarely or not using them at all. If you are getting bubbles you probably just need practice, or you may be getting bubbles in your transfer tape which then results in bubbles in your application, or you may need a squeegee that isn't worn down, or dozens of other reasons.
It is completely incorrect to attempt to force a bubble out by over-squeegeeing the vinyl. Once you've trapped the air you are only going to damage the install by continuing to squeegee it. The good news is that most films breathe enough that the bubbles will disappear on their own in a few days.
Thanks Fred
I really Appreciate the information. I have observed on a previous van I did that the bubble that I could not get out did diminish greatly. The small ripples bug me. My Clients love the work and still ask for more to be done. I just want to give them the best.
I started doing this just to be a simple sticker guy and because nobody does this in my area...I literally live in the middle of nowhere...I have become the new sign guy. I have actually had to turn people away because frankly I just dont know enough to do a good enough job.
There are some fantastic sign makers out there and I would love to become one of them. I am hoping this forum will help. I know I have a lot to learn. someday hopefully I can consider myself a decent if not good sign maker. It is an art for sure and by no means easy.
I really Appreciate the information. I have observed on a previous van I did that the bubble that I could not get out did diminish greatly. The small ripples bug me. My Clients love the work and still ask for more to be done. I just want to give them the best.
I started doing this just to be a simple sticker guy and because nobody does this in my area...I literally live in the middle of nowhere...I have become the new sign guy. I have actually had to turn people away because frankly I just dont know enough to do a good enough job.
There are some fantastic sign makers out there and I would love to become one of them. I am hoping this forum will help. I know I have a lot to learn. someday hopefully I can consider myself a decent if not good sign maker. It is an art for sure and by no means easy.
OldPaint
New Member
here are some fantastic sign makers out there and I would love to become one of them. I am hoping this forum will help. I know I have a lot to learn. someday hopefully I can consider myself a decent if not good sign maker. It is an art for sure and by no means easy.
1ST THING you need to learn..........IS TO NOT PAY FOR MATERIALS/APPLICATION FLUID!
with your CHEAP BABYSOAP/WATER you are showing you are working CHEAP!!! TO CHEAP TO AFFORD a REAL APPLICATION FLUID!!!!!
now, when you purchase a QT OR GAL of application fluid, no matter what the job is your doing ......YOU ADD $5
TO YOUR PRICE..........to apy for the fluid. is that to hard for you to do???
as most MECHANIC SHOPS DO, TIRE/ BATTERY/OIL CHANGE P;ACES...........ALL CHARGE A FEE, for the olod stuff.
what they also charge EVRY CUSTOMER IS............called a shop fee, to cover penatrating oil, carb cleaner, WD-40 they put on your HINGES, or squeaky bushing!!!!!! and that is anywhere from $5-20.
NOTHING IS FREE.........you PAY FOR SOMETHING............CHARGE YOUR CUSTOMER FOR IT!!!! then you make profits...........while doin something you like.
1ST THING you need to learn..........IS TO NOT PAY FOR MATERIALS/APPLICATION FLUID!
with your CHEAP BABYSOAP/WATER you are showing you are working CHEAP!!! TO CHEAP TO AFFORD a REAL APPLICATION FLUID!!!!!
now, when you purchase a QT OR GAL of application fluid, no matter what the job is your doing ......YOU ADD $5
TO YOUR PRICE..........to apy for the fluid. is that to hard for you to do???
as most MECHANIC SHOPS DO, TIRE/ BATTERY/OIL CHANGE P;ACES...........ALL CHARGE A FEE, for the olod stuff.
what they also charge EVRY CUSTOMER IS............called a shop fee, to cover penatrating oil, carb cleaner, WD-40 they put on your HINGES, or squeaky bushing!!!!!! and that is anywhere from $5-20.
NOTHING IS FREE.........you PAY FOR SOMETHING............CHARGE YOUR CUSTOMER FOR IT!!!! then you make profits...........while doin something you like.
I Agree with you!
I totally agree with you Oldpaint! I am not being cheap. I was very skeptical of the baby soap idea, thats why I asked. I have no problems purchasing the correct materials.
I am aware of charging for my products. I am a little shaky on what is a fair price. I live in an area that literally has no other sign makers within 80 miles. I originally purchased my cutter to be a simple sticker guy but quickly realized that there is nothing simple about it.
I dont want to do crappy work. I would love to work for a signmaker to really learn but as I said I am to far out for that to be possible. I have to learn what I can where I can.
I appreciate your response. I am very open to any information you may have.
Thanks
I totally agree with you Oldpaint! I am not being cheap. I was very skeptical of the baby soap idea, thats why I asked. I have no problems purchasing the correct materials.
I am aware of charging for my products. I am a little shaky on what is a fair price. I live in an area that literally has no other sign makers within 80 miles. I originally purchased my cutter to be a simple sticker guy but quickly realized that there is nothing simple about it.
I dont want to do crappy work. I would love to work for a signmaker to really learn but as I said I am to far out for that to be possible. I have to learn what I can where I can.
I appreciate your response. I am very open to any information you may have.
Thanks
OldPaint
New Member
give you some guide lines to pricing,
1ST.............MAKE MONEY...........
2ND ................PRODUCE WORK WORTH THE ASKING PRICE.
3RD...................TREAT YOUR CUSTOMER, LIKE YOU WOULD WANT TO TREATED.
and with those you should do well.
MAKE MONEY.
plotter, vinyl, computer time, going to meet the person, whatever you do to make the sale is WORTH MONEY.
NOW........ say you got a guy want 2 truck doors vinyled.
1st off, how much time you THINK you will have in that? not sure, give an added hour.
how much design time? goes to how proficient you are in a design program. i work in corel and am FAST with design work. but i have been doin this for 20 years. and with a lot of the work ive done SAVED, it not hard to grab an old job i did in sarasota(500 miles from here)tweek it and make it work for someone here.
VINYL ................you gona use INTERMEDIATE OR HP? makes you final product price what it will be.
EXAMPLE: i cut 50 sq ft of HP vinyl last week as R.T.A.(ready to apply)i had the layout from previous work, i pulled it up, layed it on the desktop, sent to plotter, cut it all in a hour or so, then weeded and application taped it for $9 a sq ft. now if i woulda done the same thing in INTERMEDIATE vinyl it woulda been in the
$5-6 sq ft range.
back to the truck doors. as an old painter, when i did this with a brush, i got anywhere from $125 for simple name, address phone number, one color to $250 for fancy beveled 3-4 color letters and or some art work drawing. had more time in this with paint, but almost no materials.
so now we have people doin same 2 doors in vinyl for $35-50!!!!!! and it they have to look up some clipart, maybe $75. and they have PLOTTER/VINYL/TRANSFER TAPE as costs.
i still get $125-200 for a set of doors........cause I WANT THE CUSTOMER TO PAY FOR MY MATERIALS........
and i can eat))))))))))
if they expect it for less i let them GO WHERE THEY WANT TO.
and i will tell ya another thing, I NEVER DID A JOB FOR A 6 PACK/12 PACK or CASE OF BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
never did DRINK THAT SWILL........... and why would i want to take in PAYMENT???
1ST.............MAKE MONEY...........
2ND ................PRODUCE WORK WORTH THE ASKING PRICE.
3RD...................TREAT YOUR CUSTOMER, LIKE YOU WOULD WANT TO TREATED.
and with those you should do well.
MAKE MONEY.
plotter, vinyl, computer time, going to meet the person, whatever you do to make the sale is WORTH MONEY.
NOW........ say you got a guy want 2 truck doors vinyled.
1st off, how much time you THINK you will have in that? not sure, give an added hour.
how much design time? goes to how proficient you are in a design program. i work in corel and am FAST with design work. but i have been doin this for 20 years. and with a lot of the work ive done SAVED, it not hard to grab an old job i did in sarasota(500 miles from here)tweek it and make it work for someone here.
VINYL ................you gona use INTERMEDIATE OR HP? makes you final product price what it will be.
EXAMPLE: i cut 50 sq ft of HP vinyl last week as R.T.A.(ready to apply)i had the layout from previous work, i pulled it up, layed it on the desktop, sent to plotter, cut it all in a hour or so, then weeded and application taped it for $9 a sq ft. now if i woulda done the same thing in INTERMEDIATE vinyl it woulda been in the
$5-6 sq ft range.
back to the truck doors. as an old painter, when i did this with a brush, i got anywhere from $125 for simple name, address phone number, one color to $250 for fancy beveled 3-4 color letters and or some art work drawing. had more time in this with paint, but almost no materials.
so now we have people doin same 2 doors in vinyl for $35-50!!!!!! and it they have to look up some clipart, maybe $75. and they have PLOTTER/VINYL/TRANSFER TAPE as costs.
i still get $125-200 for a set of doors........cause I WANT THE CUSTOMER TO PAY FOR MY MATERIALS........
and i can eat))))))))))
if they expect it for less i let them GO WHERE THEY WANT TO.
and i will tell ya another thing, I NEVER DID A JOB FOR A 6 PACK/12 PACK or CASE OF BEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
never did DRINK THAT SWILL........... and why would i want to take in PAYMENT???
Craig Sjoquist
New Member
wonders what ya lacking to turn work down....Conook
how to design ?
how to build ?
what to use ?
how to design ?
how to build ?
what to use ?
S
Sign-Man Signs
Guest
Your kidding right. Most window cleaners have ammonia in them that kill the glue. Read the label.
On another note what a refreshing newbie we have that actually wants to learn something. Welcome aboard Conook!
:Welcome:
B Snyder
New Member
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU.
I think/hope most here will feel the same gratitude for your decision to not discount your work or give it away for free as a learning experience.
Tim Aucoin
New Member
Welcome Conook.... you're on the right track and obviously have the one thing everyone in this business should have... basic common sense!!! Good to see!
I am lacking in what is the most efficient method and what materials are the best to use. I pretty much stick with vehicle signage and small banners because that is what I am confident with.
I would love to get into actual signs but the design program I am comfortable with is ACAD. the software I received with my cutter is good enough to do basic lettering but when it comes to full on graphics I lack the experience to use illustrator. I am ok with corel but lets not get over confident. I have done many designs in my previous job but they were all 3D and needed to be machinable.
trakers
New Member
If you want to make your own I bought a gallon bottom of weasel piss (a key ingredient in the home made version of application fluid) that I can send you a cap full of. You need some Eye of Newt also, but you can find that online. :Big Laugh
Seriously though, when I started I bought a gallon of Rapid Tac. I still have that gallon less about a tablespoon. It is all dark and nasty looking now. Develop your technique and you won't want to do wet ever again. Too messy and time consuming.
With me it is a matter of personal pride. I take it as a challenge to do difficult installs dry. I won't lie though, sometimes it comes back to bite me though.
.
Seriously though, when I started I bought a gallon of Rapid Tac. I still have that gallon less about a tablespoon. It is all dark and nasty looking now. Develop your technique and you won't want to do wet ever again. Too messy and time consuming.
With me it is a matter of personal pride. I take it as a challenge to do difficult installs dry. I won't lie though, sometimes it comes back to bite me though.
.
The Big Squeegee
Long Time Member
Application fluid formula
In a one gallon jug, Combine 1 5th if bourbon, 1/2 teaspoon of baby soap and water to make one gallon of solution.
Since the developement of the Big Squeegee, I leave out the soap and water.
In a one gallon jug, Combine 1 5th if bourbon, 1/2 teaspoon of baby soap and water to make one gallon of solution.
Since the developement of the Big Squeegee, I leave out the soap and water.
S
scarface
Guest
I started out using Splash then found that Rapid Tac 2 works great on glass as well as other surfaces and have been using that.
The Rapid Tac 2 is green, not the red.
The Rapid Tac 2 is green, not the red.
i was a rookie. i stared with applicatin fluid the gallon one worked miracles. slowly u will progress into no app fluid. it take time and patience. and from what i have learned so far application of vynil takes patience. good matrials will always go down better that cheap ones.also buy a variety of 4 inch squgees like gold 3m blue avery yellow nylon extra stiff squgees.i ony use 4 inch for vynil just my pefrence.they a cheap so get some