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Applying vinyl to uncured paint

Discussion in 'Vinyl' started by gfio, May 19, 2017.

  1. gfio

    gfio New Member

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    May 19, 2017
    Vancouver
    Hello everyone!

    I'm new to posting here, but reading the forum has always been my best support!

    I print large wall murals (on an HP Latex 360) as well as cut vinyl letters for a museum.

    I've been having a bit of trouble with peeling vinyl and am completely aware of what causes the issue... The vinyl is always installed on tacky paint!

    Because of the nature of museums, there isn't a lot of turnaround time from when the walls are painted to when we have to install the graphics for the exhibition opening. We always have to install graphics about 24-48 hours after the walls have been painted, no way around it.

    About 24 hours after the vinyl is installed I can start to see edges peeling a bit, and the graphics have to stay up on the walls for minimum 3 months until the end of the exhibit!

    Unfortunately I have no control over the paint used since it has to match artwork colour, and cannot let it cure longer since the openings are about 24h after graphics installs. I also cannot use any wet application or crazy glues on-site as to not damage artwork that is being placed at the same time we're installing the graphics...

    We currently use Avery MPI 2126 for large murals, and that has been working to an extent. We have to pre-mask the material since it's quite stretchy and that's not ideal as it takes a while to do it. And MPI2126 doesn't have a grey back, so you can usually see the overlapping seams for light coloured images.

    Luckily there's no need to worry about removal, since most of the walls are custom built for the exhibitions and are recycled after. The material can be extremely high tack and permanent without worries about how the wall will look afterwards, but I'm still having issues!

    I'm looking for suggestions of other materials or wall treatments/tricks I can use on walls with non-cured paint!

    Thank you
     
  2. Billct2

    Billct2 Major Contributor

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    If your mural is covering a large specific area why does that area have to be painted at all?
    The other suggestion is to try a wallpaper type product like Phototex
     
  3. rossmosh

    rossmosh Member

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    Oct 9, 2014
    New Jersey
    If your main focus is going to be providing graphics to be applied directly to painted walls, you need to step up your game. This means making it very clear what paints your customers should use, how to apply the paint, and how long the paint should dry before installing.

    I strongly recommend you go to Sherwin Williams, Home Depot, Lowes, and Ben Moore and buy a quart of just about every paint they make. Also go and buy some dry wall and load of 2x4s. Start testing. You'll learn a lot very quickly.

    I can tell you with 100% certainty that if you apply the right paint and apply it properly, you can apply vinyl 48 hours after the final coat. My guess is your customers are applying the wrong paint (expensive stuff when the cheap stuff performs best) and not applying it properly (not allowing the first coat to fully dry).
     
  4. equippaint

    equippaint Very Active Member

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    Im sure he has no control over what paint is used especially since theyre not the painters. An engineer or architect probably specs it for a bid, each trade submits the bid, the winners give their submittals and on goes the show. Youd have to catch the person writing the bid spec who wouldnt care. Other option is try to go to each contractor bidding the job to get them to change the paint spec which is a lot of time and work and really they probably wouldnt care either. He really needs a work around like say use a car wrap vinyl or something that is more surface tolerant. Id venture to say that there are few if any options. Water based paint takes a long time to cure. No getting around it.
     
  5. tbullo

    tbullo Superunknown

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    We do several museums in our local area. Many years before we started doing them they ran into vinyl falling off the walls. I got my foot in the door after making some sidewalk signs for one. After seeing the vinyl falling off walls, it was all applied to flat paint. Most museums like the flat paint for lighting rooms how they want. So I got with them there and told them to use at least satin finish and not any of that scrubbable paint. Next exhibit they tried it and it worked. Been doing most of the work there ever since(15+ years at this one). And you know museum people, they all know each other in the local area and the word was passed around and now we do work at 6 local museums. Most times now we just provide the vinyl and they install. We still install any large vinyl copy and wall murals. Good money. Just explain what vinyl sticks to best and your gold.
     
  6. gfio

    gfio New Member

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    May 19, 2017
    Vancouver
    Unfortunately I have absolutely no control over the paint used. The choice is 99.9% of the times a flat matte because of glare as tbullo mentioned. The brand/kind of paint chosen depends on the curators deciding what matches the artwork. Sometimes it might be regular cheap paint, sometimes scrubbable... Somehow I'm just supposed to make the vinyl stick to the walls no mater what!

    I've just started doing production in-house for the museum about a month ago, and have been handed this bomb to solve without much flexibility on the Museum's side of things.
    Avery MPI2126 seems to be working fine, but the I run into the issue of visible seams when overlapping and the white not being "true white". It has a blue tinge to it that is really noticeable when installed on completely white walls with good lighting... Museums are very picky!

    I've been looking a options like Phototex and some premium cast permanent vinyls for now...
    Will start testing this week with hopes that something will work! Thanks for the tips!
     
  7. alex melo

    alex melo New Member

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    May 5, 2017
    vero beach fl
    use the 3m jv series or avery high tack it work great.
     
  8. jfiscus

    jfiscus Adobe Shinobi

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    Cincinnati, OH
    We primarily use phototex for museum work, but in your case you might also want to give some Arlon DPF8000 a try.
     
  9. visual800

    visual800 Very Active Member

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    montgomery, alabama
    museums probably flat paint, How about suggesting banners with no grommetts? it would give somewhat of a dimensional look and if puled tight they could look great
     
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