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Are all grommet machines created equal?

Dixonsignshop

New Member
Grommet machine disappeared … almost like it grew legs. Well it was an old hand drive but reliable as ever. My question is this, are all grommet machines created equal? I now am in need so I am looking at the bench press style. Not a huge expense but what are the advantages to say a Hiker verses a generic? I guess I will be checking the classifieds! :rolleyes: :Big Laugh
 
Stimpson and Fasnap grommets are interchangeable with Stimpson and Fasnap machines. Hiker grommets are only work with Hiker machines. Just something to consider.

Hiker machines are supposed to be easier on the arms but I've never used one personally.
~Chris
 

bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
All name brand grommet machines do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way.

Some of the Pacific rim knockoffs have such poor quality dies that they have to put the die on the bottom and the anvil on the top forcing you to pre-punch the media regardless of whether you're using self-piercing grommets. Which most civilized people use. Avoid these like the plague.

A #2 grommet is a #2 grommet [99.9% of your work will be with #2 grommets] and if any machine requires its own proprietary grommets, pass it by and get one that will set any standard vanilla #2 grommet.
 
We now have a Hiker press after using a cheap knock off for a couple of years. I would highly reccoment the Hiker. The Hiker brand grommets are easy to find and usually cheaper that the others.
 

Sign Works

New Member
I've been using a Fasnap for 12 years now without any problems. One thing I noticed recently while examinimg the fellers catalog is that the Fasnap grommets are the most expensive grommets out of all the brands, something you might take into consideration if you use a lot of Grommets.
 

jiarby

New Member
I bought a Hiker, it came already bolted to a wood base//

PLUS, There is a HIKER distribution center a few miles away in Meas AZ... I can buy grommies cheaper than Fellers sells them.
 

Steve C.

New Member
I have a simple hand and hammer punch and die. I don't have a machine
because I just don't set that many grommets. The guy who make my banners
for me uses the same thing. I ask him why he doesn't have a machine and
he said they don't make a machine that will set a grommet to stay as well
as his old fashioned one. Maybe he doesn't know what he's talking about, but
thats my two cents.
 

jmb474

New Member
I have a stimpson and love it. We pounded them for a long time and now that we have a machine, will never look back. The time savings you get with a machine is worth the price and i cant imaging getting them in better with a hammer.
 

HIKER Grommets

New Member
That's a loaded question - Brace yourself...

Hello all. I've read all of the previous posts and think I can be of some assistance here. This post will probably be one of the longest in history, but it should give you all the information you desire.

For those of you who don't want to read the whole thing and want the fast answer - Get the HIKER press and forget the rest. I assure you that you won't be disappointed if you go with the HIKER, but you very well may be disappointed with another brand.

For those of you who are thirsty for information: All grommet machines are definitely not created equal. There are basically 2 types used in the sign industry. The ones that use only straight leverage and the ones that use a cam system (technically a crank).

Straight leverage only presses:
These presses are the no-name Asian brands you might find on e-bay, the Fasnap, the Image One Impact, the Micron, etc. The easiest way to notice this type of press is the handle is not connected to the main shaft. You'll also know you have one of these if you instinctively grab the handle with both hands due to the force required to use them. The only mechanical advantage of these types of presses is provided by the length of the handle. The shorter the handle, the less leverage gained, the harder it is to use. The operation and principle of these presses is like applying force to an object with a crowbar. When you push the handle down, the handle hits the shaft and then forces the shaft downward. These presses require a great amount of physical effort to insert and close the grommet properly. I've seen average sized men hanging off the handles of presses like these (feet off the ground), in order to get enough pressure on the handle to close the grommet tightly. Many people just end up leaving the grommet loose because it requires too much effort to close them tightly. All suppliers of these types of presses that I know of supply grommets that are either of a thinner gauge metal and/or of a softer metal composition, which are easier to close and the presses are still difficult to use. The only advantage of these types of presses is they should (but don't always), cost less - but not enough of a savings to make them worth it in my opinion. They are basic pieces of equipment that are easy and cheap to manufacture as they don't require much precision. I would not recommend this type of press to a professional (someone in business).

Cam system (crank) presses:
There are two main suppliers of this type of press. HIKER and Stimpson. The main shaft of this type of press is connected by a linkage to a cam at the end of the handle. The mechanical advantage of these presses is derived from the cam, which is a force multiplier, ON TOP OF the force generated from the length of the handle (the lever). This makes the press much easier to use and allows people to close grommets properly without having to strain themselves. For example, a 110 lb. female absolutely could not close a grommet with one of the more common straight leverage presses mentioned above, but she could easily close a grommet completely using only one hand on the HIKER H-901. That particular instance is one of the reasons Fastsigns International specifies HIKER products for all new franchises. The cam system type of presses are the only type I recommend for professional use.

HIKER vs. Stimpson:
So that leaves one to choose between the HIKER or the Stimpson. The Stimpson press is a decent press and is the only other press I recommend should you decide not to choose HIKER. However, there are several reasons to choose the HIKER over the Stimpson.
* Although the Stimpson press requires less effort than the leverage only presses, some still find it not as easy as they'd like it to be. The HIKER H-901 has a longer handle and other design features that make it easier to use than even the Stimpson.
* The HIKER press is the only press on the market with an easy dial adjustment on the bottom die, which allows you quickly increase or decrease the gap between the die to adjust for various material thicknesses. Once you set the die height to match your material you push the handle down until it hits the stopping bolt. There is no guessing when to stop pushing the handle down and you don't have to crush thick sign material like Coroplast or Sintra. The Stimpson press can be adjusted, but you have to get out a wrench to raise or lower the stopping bolt, which hinders its performance. This is one of the design features I was referring to in the first bullet. On the Stimpson press, if you have thick material, you need to raise the stopping bolt. Raising the stopping bolt stops the handle earlier, which prevents the cam from hitting peak pressure. Cams (cranks), produce exponentially more force the closer they get to dead center veritical, so the further away you get (the higher the stopping bolt), you get exponentially LESS force from the cam. In essence when you are grommeting your thickest material, which could also be the most difficult, you will have the least amount of force available.
* The HIKER press is the only one that comes with a base. This keeps the press stable and portable. After seeing many sign shops with their press bolted to a large piece of plywood or to their work table, we decided to offer the base as an added benefit.
* Without getting more technical than I already have, HIKER presses and die are made with more precision than any other brand on the market. This is part of the reason HIKER brand grommets are known to cut better through even heavier material than other brands.

Self-Piercing Grommets:
* Everyone needs to know there is NO standard for grommets. Most people know the #2 as a 3/8" id grommet. This is only a general reference meaning the inside diameter is approximately 3/8" after the grommet is closed. There is a wide variation in dimensions between manufacturers for various reasons. The biggest example of this is the Stimpson and Fasnap #2 self-piercing grommets are not 3/8" id. They are smaller. HIKER brand #2 self-piercing grommets are exactly 3/8" id. Stimpson has been around for more than 100 years so their brand of grommets are the only grommets many people have ever encountered. Since they have been around so long, they are also the most copied brand of grommets. This all leads people to the notion that all grommets are the same. The reason Fasnap grommets and Stimpson grommets look the same and work on each other's equipment is because Fasnap's grommets are copies of Stimpson grommets (Stimpson grommets are better than Fasnap grommets).

* For the best possible results you should use the same brand of grommets that matches the die set you have in your press. This is because most die (from reputable companies anyway), are machined to fit all of the specific dimensions of the grommets and washers they were designed to set. This is especially important for self-piercing grommets. The barrel of a self-piercing grommet works in conjunction with the die sets like the blades of a pair of scissors. If the blades are too far apart the scissors won't cut well. If the blades are too close together the blades will bind. If a grommet id is larger than the die set was made for the grommets won't cut as well and could collapse. If the grommet id is smaller than the die set was made for the grommet could just hit the center of the die and collapse. This is all in addition to whether or not the top die will hold the grommet for you. Issues with mismatched or poor die sets and grommets are damaged or deformed grommets; smashed backsides vs. a nice, smooth roll-over; cracks in the roll of the backside of the grommet; poor cutting efficiency; puckering material, etc.

* Grommets are not all created equal. Unless you are able to compare grommets side by side you likely won't realize there can be a large difference in grommet quality. You may have noticed though that some grommet brands, like Fasnap's, look darker with almost a greyish-green hue than brands like HIKER and Stimpson. This is usually because they are made from a cheaper brass that has a higher tin content (60/40), whereas brands like HIKER and Stimpson are made from a more pure brass with less tin (70/30). Many grommets imported from Asia are made from metal sheets that do not have tightly controlled thicknesses or metal compositions. We have seen grommets from the same manufacturers vary in material thickness as much as 20% within the same batch. HIKER brand #2 self-piercing grommets, and Stimpson brand grommets for that matter, are made from high quality, well controlled raw material. Lastly, the metal spec used for HIKER brand #2 self-peircing grommets is about 22% thicker than Stimpson brand grommets and about 34% thicker than Fasnap brand grommets. All of these factors contribute to HIKER brand grommets cutting better and through tougher material than other brands.

Prices:
Though HIKER brand products are at the top of their respective classes they are priced lower than other major brands and many times are competitively priced when compared to the "bargain" brands. We are able to accomplish this with lower overhead and being involved in the design and manufacturing of our presses, die and grommets.

Availability:
HIKER brand products are available through more than 100 major sign supply distributor locations in at least 36 states and more than 11 countries from North America to Europe.

Whew. There are additional benefits of choosing HIKER over other brands, but I'll provide those later if necessary. Feel free to email or call me if you have any questions I haven't answered (info. on our website). I'll also be glad to post responses to questions on the forum. I hope this information helps! Take care.

Christopher
HIKER USA INC.
 

TheSellOut

New Member
Welcome Hiker!!

I just bought a "Hiker" 3 weeks ago and love it! Grommeting is a pleasure now and not a pain. They are easy and fast to use, and your end result is a very professional looking grommet!

My only disappointment was that it was advertised with a wooden base and it came with a plastic one! Chris was that to cut corners to stay competitive?
 

briankb

Premium Subscriber
I'm not even looking for a grommet machine but I enjoyed reading the detailed explanation. Thanks!
 

HIKER Grommets

New Member
Plastic vs. Wooden Base

Welcome Hiker!!

I just bought a "Hiker" 3 weeks ago and love it! Grommeting is a pleasure now and not a pain. They are easy and fast to use, and your end result is a very professional looking grommet!

My only disappointment was that it was advertised with a wooden base and it came with a plastic one! Chris was that to cut corners to stay competitive?

I'm going to apologize again because all of my posts will probably be lengthy. I'm the type of person that believes in having/giving too much information rather than too little.

I'm glad to hear you like the press! Just remember to keep the bottom die height adjusted properly for whatever material you are grommeting. I recommend starting with it a little low (grommet and washer loose), then turn the adjustment nut 1/2 turn clockwise and re-press the same grommet again. Repeat this step until the you can just barely turn the grommet in its hole with your thumb and forefinger. This is important because if the bottom die is up too high, there will not be enough room between the die for the top shaft to complete its stroke by the time the handle hits the stopping bolt. The extra distance between that point and the stopping bolt will cause the press (casting), to flex open to absorb the extra distance. This can make the press feel difficult to use and can damage the press if continually used that way. The HIKER press should actually feel the easiest at the end of the stroke (cam at peak pressure). If it ever feels harder at the end it is likely that the bottom die is up too high and needs to be lowered.

Regarding your question about the base;
We collect feed back from customers and try to make improvements that make sense. One of the oldest comments was that the paint wasn't shiney, so we went to baked enamel paint. Another was the press was a little taller than others and weighed more. The first thing we did was look at the base since it was the easiest to change. We originally provided a wooden base that was like a platform on two skids. It worked great but added a good 2" - 3" in height and a pound or two in weight, so we went to a flat wooden platform that was only about 1" tall. The next thing we did, which you may notice discrepancies in dealer pics, is move the handle holding clip that was on top of the press down between the stopping bolt and the cam. This reduced overall height another 1" or so. We then redesigned the H-901 hand press itself to be 1" shorter and a pound or two lighter, but with all the same capabilities. Lastly, we replaced the wooden platform base with the new plastic injection molded base for several reasons. We anticipated it being lighter than the wood, but well into the prototype phase we preferred a more beefy design, so it only ended up slightly lighter; it looks more professional than a piece of wood painted black; every base is exactly the same, so no variation or quality control issues; and finally, we distribute a few thousand of the H-901's every year and a fair number of them go to the European Union, which has very strict policies on the importation of wood products (heat treat stamps, bug treatment certifications, etc. all for a wooden base!), so it made good sense for use to move to the injection molded base that you have now.

Though the new bases are "plastic", the composit is extremely strong and durable. Great care went into the material selection and design of the new bases. During our test period I personally put one in a vice and it took all I had to bend it 90 degrees, and it didn't break. They were actually more expensive to make as well. We spent $XX,000.00 to have several prototype injection molds made before arriving at the final product and then we had to have thousands of bases made at one time to bring the per unit costs back down a bit. It was a significant capital outlay up front for an "added benefit" and seemingly simple accessory, but we feel it was the right thing to do for the benefit of our customers and the HIKER brand.

Feel free to call or email if I can be of assistance. Thanks again for choosing HIKER!
 
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HIKER Grommets

New Member
You thought the hand press answer was long...

I need an air or electic version. All help welcome.


The fastest way to find the solution that will work best for your needs is to call me directly. Toll free at 866-664-4537. (866-66-HIKER) I can help you in a matter of minutes vs. days worth of typing. However, for the sake of the forum, we can air some of it out here if you'd like.

Some Questions:
What are your needs? What are you trying to accomplish? Are you looking for increased speed and throughput (surge capacity)? Or are you looking for a machine simply to save you from having to operate a manual press with human effort? What kind(s) of material do you grommet? What size grommet are you looking to insert with the machine?

Your answers will lead us into another series of questions, but the ones above will give us a good start. Talk to you soon!

Christopher
HIKER USA, INC.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Heh, good stuff.
It is Friday night and here I am reading up on grommets.
There is something wrong with this picture but I can't put my finger on it.
Now to go surf the web and see what a Hiker grommet press looks like.....

wayne k
guam usa
 

jiarby

New Member
I bought a Hiker a couple years ago, for a couple reasons..

1. Came on a base. Used to be wooden, but is now plastic. That sounds like a cheaper thing, BUT with the plactic base they have molded in grommet holding bins. On my wood base there is a flat area to put teh grommies, but they are always scattering all around. That will not happen with the new base.

2. Adjustable die to accomodate different thicknesses of substrates. With a regular #2 grommet you can just barely do a coro or fomecore without crushing it. Longer #2 grommets are also available.

3. For me, here in AZ, there is a local Hiker warehouse. I can buy grommets locally a little cheaper than buying them from "the Cowboy". I really like using local vendors.

4. It was cheaper than the Stimson.

So, I got a better press (see the Hiker guy's comparison), already mounted on a base, from a local vendor, for a cheaper price. What's not to love!

See pictures below to compare the old base to the new base and a close up of the adjustable die.

I can't imaging being in this business without it. Now I need to get busy enough for THIS

Oh Yeah... just noticed this after taking these pictures...
Reason #5: Cool paint job matches my silk screens & squeegees!
 

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bob

It's better to have two hands than one glove.
Hello all. I've read all of the previous posts and think I can be of some assistance here....

...massive screed proclaiming Ford to be better than Chevrolet mercifully deleted...

Regardless of your prejudices all manual grommet presses do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way. It matters not a whit the length of the lever, what color it is, or whether it's screwed to a chunk of board.

If you're setting enough grommets that any of the micro differences between brands makes an actual difference in your life you probably need to step up to to some sort of automated mechanism.

As for myself, I worry over the brand of my manual grommet press about as much as I fret over what brand of scissors I might be affecting that day. It's a tool that I use anywhere from often to seldom and as long as it sets the grommet into the reeve, my lack of interest in it's finer points, if it has any, approaches total.
 

TheSellOut

New Member
Regardless of your prejudices all manual grommet presses do exactly the same thing in exactly the same way. It matters not a whit the length of the lever, what color it is, or whether it's screwed to a chunk of board.

If you're setting enough grommets that any of the micro differences between brands makes an actual difference in your life you probably need to step up to to some sort of automated mechanism.

As for myself, I worry over the brand of my manual grommet press about as much as I fret over what brand of scissors I might be affecting that day. It's a tool that I use anywhere from often to seldom and as long as it sets the grommet into the reeve, my lack of interest in it's finer points, if it has any, approaches total.

Bob you are such a bummer...it's Friday, cheer up!

Chris is obviously a man who know his product and takes great pride in it...I for one respect that and thanks for the tip on setting up the machine!

Happy Friday!!
 

jiarby

New Member
bob forgot his paxil today, but he is right.... more words have never been written about a grommet press, especially a manual one.

Maybe next we can discuss a hammer or a screwdriver!@
 
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