Arizona Ink Vacuum System Problem

[D3D]

We were doing great for a long time with the white inks but we are back to having problems. We get a clean nozzle test on the whites pretty easily, a full flood white print will start off looking great, will even get through a 4x6' board but then the next board will begin to streak until the back of the print eventually looks like a jail cell. Consistently, and without fail we can pause the print for 1 minute mid-job and somehow the time spent paused allows the system to catch up and it will resume looking either perfect or much improved. Until it starts streaking again. Is this some kind of ink starvation issue? Ink system can't keep up with demand? We are also getting Ink Vacuum System Problem errors, not sure if they are related. Love to hear some opinions on this.

 

[Pauly]

Sounds like low vacuum and ink is pooling on the heads.

Print a board, then use the suction tool (if manual) or do auto maintenance on white. If the issue goes away. vacuum issue. if it doesn't go away - you'd have to do more investigating.

There is no chance it's an ink starvation issue as it has large ink reservoirs.

 

[ToTo]

I would go for the main ink filter. To me it looks like the unit can’t fill the reservoir in time.

 

[Pauly]

I would go for the main ink filter. To me it looks like the unit can’t fill the reservoir in time.

Nope. That will say "ink filled timed out" rather than "Ink Vacuum System Problem"
and if that did happen, the printer will cancel and stop printing.

 

[D3D]

Sounds like low vacuum and ink is pooling on the heads.

Print a board, then use the suction tool (if manual) or do auto maintenance on white. If the issue goes away. vacuum issue. if it doesn't go away - you'd have to do more investigating.

There is no chance it's an ink starvation issue as it has large ink reservoirs.

Thanks Pauly. We do a manual maintenance after it starts streaking (clean / long purge) and then can easily get a good nozzle test and good start to a new print. Then it streaks again. If this is related to the ink vacuum system what is the next step either to verify or fix?

 

[Pauly]

Thanks Pauly. We do a manual maintenance after it starts streaking (clean / long purge) and then can easily get a good nozzle test and good start to a new print. Then it streaks again. If this is related to the ink vacuum system what is the next step either to verify or fix?

It's been a while since a tech adjusted mine, but there's a valve you can adjust to increase or decrease the vacuum. i think you need a specific vacuum gauge also as the vacuum is so low.

 

[Dusty73rd]

It has been a while since we've had an AZ.

I give you my thoughts what Id check.

Take a look at the white inks degass module for evidence of leaks. Any leaks replace it.

check all push together barbed ink tube connections, do they spin on the barb or feel mushy. If so, cut a 1/4" off or so (bad area and push it back together.

Change and bleed the large filter by the bag. When bleeding take note of the flow. Is the flow weak?

If so change out the failing supply pump

Check the black ribbon tubing for evidence of leaks within the Igus track, That white ink is NASTY and can turn the tubing to mush, and it will balloon up and develop a leak. both outside tubings carry the white ink

I have cut out bad sections of tubing, like a heart bypass surgery, using extra tubing and vacuum line barbed unions purchased from NAPA

Or change the whole ribbon tubing.

I might still have a new length of that stuff in stock.

And finally, I believe the pigment of the white ink is irregular shaped and can plug up things if not in constant motion.

Therefore, there is a small three-way valve by the ink pumps to keep the white ink in constant motion. It gets sucked out of the bag and pushed out to the heads on the outside edge tube of the black ink ribbon tubing and back to the tree way valve on the other edge. Perhaps it is not working properly.

 

[D3D]

It's been a while since a tech adjusted mine, but there's a valve you can adjust to increase or decrease the vacuum. i think you need a specific vacuum gauge also as the vacuum is so low.

It has been a while since we've had an AZ.

I give you my thoughts what Id check.

Take a look at the white inks degass module for evidence of leaks. Any leaks replace it.

check all push together barbed ink tube connections, do they spin on the barb or feel mushy. If so, cut a 1/4" off or so (bad area and push it back together.

Change and bleed the large filter by the bag. When bleeding take note of the flow. Is the flow weak?

If so change out the failing supply pump

Check the black ribbon tubing for evidence of leaks within the Igus track, That white ink is NASTY and can turn the tubing to mush, and it will balloon up and develop a leak. both outside tubings carry the white ink

I have cut out bad sections of tubing, like a heart bypass surgery, using extra tubing and vacuum line barbed unions purchased from NAPA

Or change the whole ribbon tubing.

I might still have a new length of that stuff in stock.

And finally, I believe the pigment of the white ink is irregular shaped and can plug up things if not in constant motion.

Therefore, there is a small three-way valve by the ink pumps to keep the white ink in constant motion. It gets sucked out of the bag and pushed out to the heads on the outside edge tube of the black ink ribbon tubing and back to the tree way valve on the other edge. Perhaps it is not working properly.

I assume you can't use anything as simple as a soapy water solution and a spray bottle to check for leaks because any leaks will be pulling air in and not the opposite. Correct?
Sounds like checking for leaks is the main task at hand.
Ink pumps were recently replaced so I think we can rule those out. Filters were also recently replaced.
Where is the valve mentioned by Pauly to increase/decrease ink vacuum pressure? This is different than adjusting the meniscus pressure from the service menu I assume?

 

[Dusty73rd]

Black ribbon ink lines, carry only ink.

Looks like this.

Remember there are six tubes the two outside ones carry white ink. One up to the heads and the other back to the three way valve

Look for white ink in the two Igus tracks

For me leaks most often occurred between the 2 of them

Soapy water will not work.

Checked my computer files and found this 350 white ink supply diagram as well (we had a 250 2 350's and one 550 they were all the same)

 

[Pauly]

I assume you can't use anything as simple as a soapy water solution and a spray bottle to check for leaks because any leaks will be pulling air in and not the opposite. Correct?
Sounds like checking for leaks is the main task at hand.
Ink pumps were recently replaced so I think we can rule those out. Filters were also recently replaced.
Where is the valve mentioned by Pauly to increase/decrease ink vacuum pressure? This is different than adjusting the meniscus pressure from the service menu I assume?

Meniscus is the vacuum. That's what you're adjusting.

Before you touch it. Confirm your vacuum levels are correct.

 

[AlsEU]

Where is the valve mentioned by Pauly to increase/decrease ink vacuum pressure? This is different than adjusting the meniscus pressure from the service menu I assume?

To adjust the meniscus vacuum you need a vacuum gauge connected to the vacuum tubing with the T connector. There are two parameters to be adjusted:
- meniscus setpoint (value, which should be maintained in the system)
- time required to change the meniscus value from maximum to minimum (vacuum level in the system is changing automatically)

 

[bpp]

We were doing great for a long time with the white inks but we are back to having problems. We get a clean nozzle test on the whites pretty easily, a full flood white print will start off looking great, will even get through a 4x6' board but then the next board will begin to streak until the back of the print eventually looks like a jail cell. Consistently, and without fail we can pause the print for 1 minute mid-job and somehow the time spent paused allows the system to catch up and it will resume looking either perfect or much improved. Until it starts streaking again. Is this some kind of ink starvation issue? Ink system can't keep up with demand? We are also getting Ink Vacuum System Problem errors, not sure if they are related. Love to hear some opinions on this.

Don't know the reasoning, but I was having the same issue that if I was trying to do a full 4x8 sheet with a full White flood it did not make it through the full sheet. This was when I was using onyx when I changed my rip to print Factory I have no issues anymore.

 

[D3D]

To adjust the meniscus vacuum you need a vacuum gauge connected to the vacuum tubing with the T connector. There are two parameters to be adjusted:
- meniscus setpoint (value, which should be maintained in the system)
- time required to change the meniscus value from maximum to minimum (vacuum level in the system is changing automatically)

Without the vacuum gauge how about adjusting the meniscus experimentally to see if there is a change? If there was some improvement you might then get a tech with a gauge and dial it into spec. No improvement then move on to other causes.

 

[ToTo]

To change meniscus vacuum you need access to service mode. The restrictor valves close to the pump and the relief valve are meant to regulate the speed of applying/releasing the negative pressure.

 

[ONYXtechtips]

I am guessing here, but have you looked at the density of white in your Onyx profile? Maybe it is jetting more ink than it can feed. Try to reduce the density of white a bit and see if you get better results. This is a hypothesis since one user changed software and got better results. My assumption is that the white ink density is set lower in the profile.

 

[Pauly]

I am guessing here, but have you looked at the density of white in your Onyx profile? Maybe it is jetting more ink than it can feed. Try to reduce the density of white a bit and see if you get better results. This is a hypothesis since one user changed software and got better results. My assumption is that the white ink density is set lower in the profile.

Impossible. you can set white at max in onyx and there's 0 starvation issues.
Ink starvation isn't a thing on the Arizona.

 

[D3D]

We have access to a service key, adjusting the meniscus set point did not seem to improve the situation. We discovered the board that controls the ink pumps was generating errors on both channel 0 and 7, we have swapped that out and are going to run some prints and see what happens. Fingers crossed!

 

[Pauly]

We have access to a service key, adjusting the meniscus set point did not seem to improve the situation. We discovered the board that controls the ink pumps was generating errors on both channel 0 and 7, we have swapped that out and are going to run some prints and see what happens. Fingers crossed!

Check your logs, is it only a vacuum problem. Or have you had any ink fill time outs during print. ?

 

[AlsEU]

Without the vacuum gauge how about adjusting the meniscus experimentally to see if there is a change? If there was some improvement you might then get a tech with a gauge and dial it into spec. No improvement then move on to other causes.

Of course, you can try, but imho it's a waste of time, you may make it much worse than it is now. Sometimes required changes are very subtle, sometimes you have to do the full rotation of the valve screw - that's why the gauge is required.

 

[Boejoe77]

Of course, you can try, but imho it's a waste of time, you may make it much worse than it is now. Sometimes required changes are very subtle, sometimes you have to do the full rotation of the valve screw - that's why the gauge is required.

If you want to eliminate the Miniscus try the same print with a different color the Miniscus is the same for all Colors + my honest opinion in this case is a dirty print head even if you have all your nozzles while you print ink accumulate on the head and simulate a ink starvation.