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Artwork release

Marlene

New Member
Totally agree with Gino. If you clearly stated what she was paying for, she is out of luck when it comes to demanding the files. If you didn't, that is your bad and you should give her the files and lesson learned. On a quote you can state that the design created is for the sole purpose of making (file in the blank). The files belong to you and can be purchased for $$.
 

Solventinkjet

DIY Printer Fixing Guide
When you specifically hire a photographer to take photos at a wedding, you don't automatically get the legal rights to those photos unless they include that in contract. They were "commissioned" to do photography. Even photo print places require the authorized signature of the photographer if it's a professional photo, in order to print them.
He charged for design...not rights to the design. You apparently don't know how it works, legally.

I didn't make any legal claims so not sure what you are getting at. There is a difference between hiring someone to design something and hiring someone to print something. If I hire someone to design something,I expect to receive the design.
 

ams

New Member
Why don't we make up a new sign law and agree on it and everybody follows it? This way there is no confusion or issues with our customers.
 

d fleming

Premium Subscriber
I'm a newb so my input is less than 2 cents however you are assuming that she will leave and never come back. If she liked your quality she will be back as she knows its consistent. If she was that important of a client you would make time to get her labels done. imho
I'm an old fart so here's another 2 cents. She is price shopping. It is the norm of the day. Somebody will do it for her cheaper and do it now to gain a new client. As soon as she finds someone 2 cents cheaper again she'll be gone from there as well. I do not give films or files for free any more. All my invoices and emails state in bold at bottom that art is mine and you are paying for my time to create. That's what an art charge is, design time, nothing else. I still try to be nice (or I stay my but away from the front and my wife is nice, lol) and if they are truly a pain I will give them a nice jpeg to go away. I have been in this business going on 40 years and I'm about done. It simply isn't what it used to be any more. Let vista crap and tshirt.com or whatever have it. Anybody want to buy an old bucket truck, lol.
 

SignsSupport

Support & Tech Administrator
I think if you specifically charged them for the design, they should get the design.

Give her the damn files! I never understood all this "hoarding" of others' artwork.

This and this...
Especially if you did not outline any specific policy in regards to the original sourcefiles.
CanuckSigns - Perhaps let your clients know that you will charge a specific sum in order to release the original sourcefiles BEFORE commencing with their design requests.
If you didn't outline such a policy - then you should give the client her damn files as visual800 stated.

SignsSupport
 

morty87

New Member
I'm obviously missing something so I apologize in advance. I am sure I am going to learn why this is such a big deal. If a customer pays me for a design that took me 3 hours to do and she paid me for those 3 hours and it was a design I had done specifically for her an at her direction and she hired me as a graphics designer to do that work. She then paid me more money to print that artwork which she had paid for. Why would it not be her artwork and why should she not have the ability to have a copy of it as she had commissioned it and paid for it? lol what am I missing? When my designer does artwork which we get paid for of course we give a copy to the paying customer, why wouldn't we? I'm not scared or offended if they want to go somewhere else. I made a sale and I was paid for that work.
 

WildWestDesigns

Active Member
If a customer pays me for a design that took me 3 hours to do and she paid me for those 3 hours and it was a design I had done specifically for her an at her direction and she hired me as a graphics designer to do that work. She then paid me more money to print that artwork which she had paid for.

I can only speak for myself here, but here is the distinction for me.

It all depends on what I was commissioned to do and what fulfilled the contract.

If the contract is for an end product and only an end product (and I don't have another option there, it's only the final product), that contract is fulfilled when those products are placed in the customers hands. What they pay for is the costs of inputs (both labor and physical inputs) that go into that finished product. They don't get all of those inputs.

Now, when someone commissions me for the file, absolutely that goes to them. The contract will never get fulfilled otherwise. Typically, these people do not have me do the finished work as well. The only reason that they would, at least the only reason that has come up for me, is that the machine that they use (some actually do have different, typically local, shops that do the work for them, they don't do the finished work as well) is down for whatever reason or there is a significant wait time for their order. But they are commissioning me specifically from the outset for the files first. Then sometimes they come back and go "hey can you do X for me". Not the other way around.

Here is the rub as well, if I were to give them my specific production files. My productions files, the ones that I actually use for the end product, are human readable CSV files, not files like a DST (which is what I send to my digitizing customers and probably what most on here would expect to get). I have specific software that reads that, converts on the fly and send that to the machine. Mainly that's done due to there are abilities that I code for my machines that not only are not recognized in the DST format, but not all machines take advantage of even if the DST file recognized it (which one of them it does not).

The chances that they would have in the wild of finding another shop that would be able to take that CSV file (and there are a lot of programs that read CSV files, simple text editors can read them) and use it are significantly smaller then you (or anyone else) handing them a SignLab or Flexi (or whatever) native file and them finding someone that has that program. But, in my case, that CSV file is what I use for production when they commission me for a final product. That is my production file.

Now could I convert to something that they could use, sure, however, it would no longer be the file that I used for production as not all the functionality that I use will make it to that newly converted file. It would no longer be the exact production file that I used. How many of them do you think would like the fact that it isn't the exact file that I used for production? I actually can't stand it when I read about people that have a policy of actually giving the files to any that ask regardless of what they were commissioned for, if the person asking told them that they found someone cheaper (which they might legitimately be cheaper and not just underselling or ignorance of what their pricing needs are) that will tweak the file to offset quality that the other shop will output, or at least increase the odds of that happening.

Having said all that, whichever way you want your policy to go is actually fine, just make sure that it's written down to where the customer can read it and they are aware of it before the job starts.
 

HDvinyl

Trump 2020
How much did you charge per hour? I would love to see the design that took "3" hours.

CAPS means F*CK YOU, YOU'RE FIRED.

Lesson learned, eh?
 

Marlene

New Member
The difference comes down to designing a sign and designing a "design package". A design for the sign is for that purpose only. A design package is for the sign and any other needs the customer may have. It would include full color vector and raster plus black & white of the same files. It would include Pantone references and could be digital files or dropped onto a thumb drive. If a customer wants a sign design, that is all they get and all they pay for, done deal at the end of the sign project. If they want to use the design elsewhere that is when the package comes in. Make it clear which is which and no problems. Offer it to anyone who is buying a sign that you design and let them make the choice. If later they want the files, then refer them back to the original choices and guess what? No problems later when they call and want a file. It is all about making sure people know what they are and are not paying for.
 

CanuckSigns

Active Member
How much did you charge per hour? I would love to see the design that took "3" hours.

CAPS means F*CK YOU, YOU'RE FIRED.

Lesson learned, eh?

We charged our standard shop rate, the client needed labels for her line of beauty products, she had about 5 products with different labels, so I don't think 3 hours is out of the norm, am I missing something?

And I'm not fired, after explaining to her why our policy is the way it is, she placed an order and is picking it up today.

In the future I'm going to need to be more clear up front, but honestly this hardly ever comes up that it usually slips my mind during the initial chat.
 

Marlene

New Member
We charged our standard shop rate, the client needed labels for her line of beauty products, she had about 5 products with different labels, so I don't think 3 hours is out of the norm, am I missing something?

And I'm not fired, after explaining to her why our policy is the way it is, she placed an order and is picking it up today.

In the future I'm going to need to be more clear up front, but honestly this hardly ever comes up that it usually slips my mind during the initial chat.

I didn't get the 3 hours, you're fired either. Glad she understood and is OK with this.
 

Kentucky Wraps

Kentucky Wraps
I didn't make any legal claims so not sure what you are getting at. There is a difference between hiring someone to design something and hiring someone to print something. If I hire someone to design something,I expect to receive the design.

That's the problem, unless those rights are spelled out in the contract...you can expect all you want, that doesn't oblige the designer to give you any files.
I'm not saying whether or not someone should or should not give them, I'm simply stating who has LEGAL rights to them.
 

bmt Promotions

bmt Promotions
This actually comes up quite a bit in my world. If they don't expect files to be free (which most do), they expect to get the production files if it's itemized.
 
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