Asking for opinions...drop trowel & show me yours

[ThatGuy]

We have been using 3M180C for years. We just had 3 major failures (all came from same roll of media) & looking for opinions.
• Should I stay with 3M & just use the 180Cv3?
• Would you switch to Avery or Oracal or other?
• Has anyone experienced failures with the 180C or 180Cv3?

As a note, I used 180Cv3 to re-wrap 2 of the vehicles & purchased Avery 1105 for the 3rd. I do not like the print on the Avery. I used a profile from Roland for the Avery 1105 and the banding is bad. I changed temps & feed control to help but it is still does not look good. I even tried my 3M profiles with no luck.

I know I am asking a loaded question. Just looking for a consensus.

 

[eahicks]

I accidentally ordered IJ180C last month, as I usually order V3. I went ahead and used it for a few jobs, and last week did a partial wrap with it. I see no issue with it at all....had to get used to the crosshatch pattern again, but other than that, it printed great and installed with no issue. What exactly failed in your instance?

 

[ThatGuy]

I prefer to 180C just because it is easier to install, less initial tack than 180Cv3.
The failures were all lifting in recess areas. Even small "dips" or raised panel sections that should not have an issue with even cheap material were lifting.
2 of the vehicles were installed by 3M certified. I installed 1 myself. 2 of the vehicles used probond and 1 used 3M primer. The only thing consistent with all 3 vehicles was the material.
All of these failures were within days of installation.

 

[HulkSmash]

We have been using 3M180C for years. We just had 3 major failures (all came from same roll of media) & looking for opinions.
• Should I stay with 3M & just use the 180Cv3?
• Would you switch to Avery or Oracal or other?
• Has anyone experienced failures with the 180C or 180Cv3?

As a note, I used 180Cv3 to re-wrap 2 of the vehicles & purchased Avery 1105 for the 3rd. I do not like the print on the Avery. I used a profile from Roland for the Avery 1105 and the banding is bad. I changed temps & feed control to help but it is still does not look good. I even tried my 3M profiles with no luck.

I know I am asking a loaded question. Just looking for a consensus.

No one can really answer that question for you. That's something you have to decide on your own. Why are you wanting to switch from 3M? What's the advantage of doing that.

The avery printed bad because you used a garbage profile. You might need to make your own, or call your vendors to get your hand on one. But it's not the materials fault.

 

[HulkSmash]

Also failure of wrap, has nothing to do with material. Sorry to be blunt but this is 100% an installer failure. I only say this because we wrap 10-15 vehicles a week with 3M and have never had this issue.

 

[ThatGuy]

I didn't believe I would get an answer, only opinions. It is possible that installation was the problem. It is also impossible that 3M has never made a defective roll of media.

Which 3M do you (Mr. Coloradosigns) prefer? 180C, 180Cv3.......? Asking for a friend.

 

[2B]

we have never been a fan of the 3M options, any of them

switched from Oracal 3751RA to the Arlon SLX, been very pleased with the switch.
Vivid prints, installers love it, very conformable and is holding up well

 

[jimbug72]

If you've always been using 3M180C for years and have been happy with the results & you feel confident that it wasn't due to prep/installation/paint/etc. I would approach the vendor as it being a defective roll of media. Our reps at Grimco are usually pretty quick to replace a roll if we even suspect that it might be defective.

If you continue to have issues with future rolls of 3M180C I would then consider a change.

I would agree with Coloradosigns that the profile for the Avery is more likely the culprit with the bad prints than the vinyl itself. I would turn to my vendor or Avery for advice on the best profile to use with my printer.

 

[ThatGuy]

Thanks for the informative replies. I wasn't exactly looking to leave 3M but since it was something on my mind, thought I would research a little and ask opinions.
We have never had any issues with the 3M 180C in the past and I have profiles that print great on the material. I just thought that if it was an issue I might get ahead of it.
I may however go to the Cv3 more.

Any opinions on the 380 or 480? Easier install??? Print-ability???

 

[ddarlak]

I use Arlon and love it

 

[White Haus]

On a somewhat related note.....has anyone played around with Oracal's new proslide wrap media yet? Sounds promising, and is competitively priced against 3M bundles.

 

[jfiscus]

What was the print that was installed?
Did you print it? What Machine? What was the off-gas/dry time before you laminated it?
What laminate? Are you SURE it was that laminate?
We use 180c here every day and we do get defective rolls, about 5 per year, but the defects are obvious (missing coating/adhesive) and easily caught during production.
I have seen this happen most often when prints were rushed and not allowed to off-gas correctly before lamination.

What did 3M / your rep say they thought was the issue?

I'd stick with it if you've been happy so far. We are a 3M shop and they take good care of us.

 

[HulkSmash]

Thanks for the informative replies. I wasn't exactly looking to leave 3M but since it was something on my mind, thought I would research a little and ask opinions.
We have never had any issues with the 3M 180C in the past and I have profiles that print great on the material. I just thought that if it was an issue I might get ahead of it.
I may however go to the Cv3 more.

Any opinions on the 380 or 480? Easier install??? Print-ability???

pretty sure 380 discontinued. 480 is overpriced, and doesn't perform that much better.

we use ij180 CV3.

 

[ThatGuy]

What was the print that was installed?
Did you print it? What Machine? What was the off-gas/dry time before you laminated it?
What laminate? Are you SURE it was that laminate?
We use 180c here every day and we do get defective rolls, about 5 per year, but the defects are obvious (missing coating/adhesive) and easily caught during production.
I have seen this happen most often when prints were rushed and not allowed to off-gas correctly before lamination.

What did 3M / your rep say they thought was the issue?

I'd stick with it if you've been happy so far. We are a 3M shop and they take good care of us.

• The material was 180C. It was a new roll from supplier.
• We printed on a Roland VS 640. I have used the same 3M icc profile of the media for the last 4 years with no issues.
• I always out-gas for 48 hours with no exceptions. This graphic actually sat for 4 days before laminating. (The one I am replacing now). And the last one I hope.
• I use the 8519 laminate but will use gloss if customer does specify.
• Rep wanted a sample but I really did not want to go through the process and I did not have any left from the roll. The tube had been disposed. She did say she hasn't had this exact issue before.

I will stay with the 3M but will use the Cv3 for full wrap from now forward.

On a side note..... when the graphics were removed from all 3 vehicles there was no adhesive residue left where we used primer. Other wraps have always left the grey adhesive upon removal where primer was used. I attributed this to the fact the wraps were installed less than a month.

 

[ThatGuy]

pretty sure 380 discontinued. 480 is overpriced, and doesn't perform that much better.

we use ij180 CV3.

Thanks for the reply. I will use the 180Cv3 forward since it seems to be a random problem (my luck, reason I do not buy lotto tickets) and no one else seems to be screaming problems.

 

[the east coast kid]

Guy,
You may want to ask for a sample roll of the New IJ175cv3, lower initial tack than 180cv3 and 180mC-10

I just got may sample but haven't wrapped with it yet.
Just a thought.

 

[jfiscus]

Our installers have more issues with the CV3 trapping air in channels than 180c. 480 is real nice but a LOT more expensive so we only use it where needed.
I have heard a lot of issues with removing the 175?

 

[ThatGuy]

Our installers have more issues with the CV3 trapping air in channels than 180c. 480 is real nice but a LOT more expensive so we only use it where needed.
I have heard a lot of issues with removing the 175?

The air channel is why we have always used 180C. We have the same issue with Cv3 trapping air.
I have not used the 175 but have seen on this site the removal problem mentioned.

 

[CL Visual]

I didn't read all replies but it sounds like you had installation failure, not material failure. Very possible you got a roll with bad adhesive. Take a sample piece and send to 3m, they will send you a new roll if there was a problem. it's happened to me a few times over the years with 3m and Avery. We install hundreds of wraps per year and 99% of the issues wwe encounter are installation related.

On the one you installed, what temperature did you post heat all the areas that were stretched greater than 6%?

 

[Jb1983]

Why not try the 180mc-10?? its the newer version 180.... I went from 180cv3 and haven't looked back it has a better air release pattern IMO installs very similar to the Avery 1105.

I know on my Mimaki eco solvent the 3m ij180cv3 profile worked the best on the Avery 1105...….. Heck that profile worked pretty much the best on every vinyl.

I think pictures of your failures would help