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Attention all newbies

Lately there have been many post proudly showing your work and then you get upset when the more experienced veterans here try to help you with suggestions. Instead, you get your feelings hurt because not everyone believes your work to be as good as you think it is. You come here seeking praise but when you hear the truth, you think we're all being mean on purpose.

The fact is, the majority of people in the sign industry today have no proper education with regards to design and layout. You have not been trained or taught the art of graphic/sign design that is necessary if you are to be in the sign business. Just because you can execute and stick letters on a board does not make you a talented designer or artist. Even if you are not a natural artist, it is still possible to become a great sign designer if you take the necessary steps to learn the basics.

If you are really here to learn then you need to start with the fundamentals and most important of all, learn to take constructive criticism without getting you panties all wadded up.

Let me tell you a little story. Thirty years ago I was going on my sixth year in business being entirely self taught. Everything was hand lettered then because there was no such thing as a computer. Also there was no such thing back then like Signs 101 where information was offered among your competitors and peers. You have no idea how lucky you are that these professionals are taking time out of their busy day to offer the help they do. All the knowledge back when I started was a closely guarded secret. Hell most competitor shops would not allow you inside their buildings for fear that you might see what they were doing. It was damn near impossible to teach yourself but it could be done as I proved it myself.

One day I was off to Riverhead N.Y. a town about fifty miles from where I lived and I thought I would stop and visit a local sign shop of I guy I had run into one day.

His work was some of the best I had ever seen. He had a real sign shop with employees, tools, showroom, the real deal. I brought my portfolio along and wanted his opinion of my work. He was busy at the time but told me to show it to his young hot shot design guy in the next room.

Well this self proclaimed design god proceeded to rip me a new *** and told me I might as well quit and find another job. He said that unless I worked for another sign company I could never learn how to properly design and make signs.

My guts felt like they were ripped right out of me. My mouth hit the floor and I was flooded with emotions I'd never known before. I was devastated and crushed. I left his shop and got back in my car. My wife at the time took one look at me and said what's wrong? I told her what Jimmy Hotshot as said and that I was going to give up and enlist in the military.

She was silent a moment and then said to me, if Jimmy Hotshot is so damn good, why is he working for somebody else? She said to me, for the past six years you have done really well in the sign business and provided for your family all of those years. Why would you want to give up something you love doing so much?

Well after looking at it that way, I decided being the stubborn ***** that I can be, that I was going to prove that know it all wrong. From that moment on I became obsessed with being the best damn sign maker I could.

I read and studied every article in every sign mag, tried every new technique I could learn and most important of all, I never, never could be satisfied with any of my finished signs. Even when they were done and gone I would critique and analyze every single one trying to find ways of improving my work.

To this very day, thirty six years later after picking up that first brush, I'm still never satisfied that my work is good enough. Every once in a while I get a critique or suggestion from somebody and it may sting a little but, over the years I have developed elephant hide and take it as a way to continue improving.

The one thing that disturbs me most is the planetary infliction of visual pollution that has ruined our communities. I'm all for laws that will punish the graphically challenged because it has gotten that bad.

So if you aren't pissing and moaning by this post then I suggest you focus your education on design and layout. For those of you in the business ten years or more and never heard of Mike Stevens book "The art of eye appeal" I suggest you pony of a few bucks and invest in your future.

Good design isn't just a tool, its the key to your financial success as well. When you can design with the best of them, you can command premium prices and who the hell here doesn't want to get top dollar for your talent and skill?

Something to think about....
 
I didn't realize how bad my sign layouts sucked until I was in the biz about 9 years, I thought I was the shizzit.
It took going to a Letterhead meet to see what I was doing wrong.
I am always open to advice, and while I am not a designer by any means, I consider myself to be an OK sign maker.
I always remember the sting of criticism far better than any praise I get.
And I learn more from what I did wrong, and try to not repeat my errors.
I try to offer advice to Newbies without being a total tw@t, but sometimes I get so frustrated.
It's similar to teling someone they have broccoli in their teeth and them replying "but I like it like this!"
Especially really basic stuff like stretching text, all-caps on a display alphabet etc.
You'd think that everyone would like their work to get better with every job, but some people really do think it's just typing words into a machine and letting their printer puke them out.
They don't "get it".
Luckily, I think there are more Newbies who want to learn, if anything, just to shut up us old-timers. And that's good. So I will keep on pushing the Mike Stevens book, even if some people do not find it to be the be-all-end-all. It's really the only basic layout book I know which is readily available.
Love....Jill
Nice ... you write really great thanks for sharing with us
 

msigns

New Member
Lately there have been many post proudly showing your work and then you get upset when the more experienced veterans here try to help you with suggestions. Instead, you get your feelings hurt because not everyone believes your work to be as good as you think it is. You come here seeking praise but when you hear the truth, you think we're all being mean on purpose.

The fact is, the majority of people in the sign industry today have no proper education with regards to design and layout. You have not been trained or taught the art of graphic/sign design that is necessary if you are to be in the sign business. Just because you can execute and stick letters on a board does not make you a talented designer or artist. Even if you are not a natural artist, it is still possible to become a great sign designer if you take the necessary steps to learn the basics.

If you are really here to learn then you need to start with the fundamentals and most important of all, learn to take constructive criticism without getting you panties all wadded up.

Let me tell you a little story. Thirty years ago I was going on my sixth year in business being entirely self taught. Everything was hand lettered then because there was no such thing as a computer. Also there was no such thing back then like Signs 101 where information was offered among your competitors and peers. You have no idea how lucky you are that these professionals are taking time out of their busy day to offer the help they do. All the knowledge back when I started was a closely guarded secret. Hell most competitor shops would not allow you inside their buildings for fear that you might see what they were doing. It was damn near impossible to teach yourself but it could be done as I proved it myself.

One day I was off to Riverhead N.Y. a town about fifty miles from where I lived and I thought I would stop and visit a local sign shop of I guy I had run into one day.

His work was some of the best I had ever seen. He had a real sign shop with employees, tools, showroom, the real deal. I brought my portfolio along and wanted his opinion of my work. He was busy at the time but told me to show it to his young hot shot design guy in the next room.

Well this self proclaimed design god proceeded to rip me a new *** and told me I might as well quit and find another job. He said that unless I worked for another sign company I could never learn how to properly design and make signs.

My guts felt like they were ripped right out of me. My mouth hit the floor and I was flooded with emotions I'd never known before. I was devastated and crushed. I left his shop and got back in my car. My wife at the time took one look at me and said what's wrong? I told her what Jimmy Hotshot as said and that I was going to give up and enlist in the military.

She was silent a moment and then said to me, if Jimmy Hotshot is so damn good, why is he working for somebody else? She said to me, for the past six years you have done really well in the sign business and provided for your family all of those years. Why would you want to give up something you love doing so much?

Well after looking at it that way, I decided being the stubborn ***** that I can be, that I was going to prove that know it all wrong. From that moment on I became obsessed with being the best damn sign maker I could.

I read and studied every article in every sign mag, tried every new technique I could learn and most important of all, I never, never could be satisfied with any of my finished signs. Even when they were done and gone I would critique and analyze every single one trying to find ways of improving my work.

To this very day, thirty six years later after picking up that first brush, I'm still never satisfied that my work is good enough. Every once in a while I get a critique or suggestion from somebody and it may sting a little but, over the years I have developed elephant hide and take it as a way to continue improving.

The one thing that disturbs me most is the planetary infliction of visual pollution that has ruined our communities. I'm all for laws that will punish the graphically challenged because it has gotten that bad.

So if you aren't pissing and moaning by this post then I suggest you focus your education on design and layout. For those of you in the business ten years or more and never heard of Mike Stevens book "The art of eye appeal" I suggest you pony of a few bucks and invest in your future.

Good design isn't just a tool, its the key to your financial success as well. When you can design with the best of them, you can command premium prices and who the hell here doesn't want to get top dollar for your talent and skill?

Something to think about....[/QUOTE
Lately there have been many post proudly showing your work and then you get upset when the more experienced veterans here try to help you with suggestions. Instead, you get your feelings hurt because not everyone believes your work to be as good as you think it is. You come here seeking praise but when you hear the truth, you think we're all being mean on purpose.

The fact is, the majority of people in the sign industry today have no proper education with regards to design and layout. You have not been trained or taught the art of graphic/sign design that is necessary if you are to be in the sign business. Just because you can execute and stick letters on a board does not make you a talented designer or artist. Even if you are not a natural artist, it is still possible to become a great sign designer if you take the necessary steps to learn the basics.

If you are really here to learn then you need to start with the fundamentals and most important of all, learn to take constructive criticism without getting you panties all wadded up.

Let me tell you a little story. Thirty years ago I was going on my sixth year in business being entirely self taught. Everything was hand lettered then because there was no such thing as a computer. Also there was no such thing back then like Signs 101 where information was offered among your competitors and peers. You have no idea how lucky you are that these professionals are taking time out of their busy day to offer the help they do. All the knowledge back when I started was a closely guarded secret. Hell most competitor shops would not allow you inside their buildings for fear that you might see what they were doing. It was damn near impossible to teach yourself but it could be done as I proved it myself.

One day I was off to Riverhead N.Y. a town about fifty miles from where I lived and I thought I would stop and visit a local sign shop of I guy I had run into one day.

His work was some of the best I had ever seen. He had a real sign shop with employees, tools, showroom, the real deal. I brought my portfolio along and wanted his opinion of my work. He was busy at the time but told me to show it to his young hot shot design guy in the next room.

Well this self proclaimed design god proceeded to rip me a new *** and told me I might as well quit and find another job. He said that unless I worked for another sign company I could never learn how to properly design and make signs.

My guts felt like they were ripped right out of me. My mouth hit the floor and I was flooded with emotions I'd never known before. I was devastated and crushed. I left his shop and got back in my car. My wife at the time took one look at me and said what's wrong? I told her what Jimmy Hotshot as said and that I was going to give up and enlist in the military.

She was silent a moment and then said to me, if Jimmy Hotshot is so damn good, why is he working for somebody else? She said to me, for the past six years you have done really well in the sign business and provided for your family all of those years. Why would you want to give up something you love doing so much?

Well after looking at it that way, I decided being the stubborn ***** that I can be, that I was going to prove that know it all wrong. From that moment on I became obsessed with being the best damn sign maker I could.

I read and studied every article in every sign mag, tried every new technique I could learn and most important of all, I never, never could be satisfied with any of my finished signs. Even when they were done and gone I would critique and analyze every single one trying to find ways of improving my work.

To this very day, thirty six years later after picking up that first brush, I'm still never satisfied that my work is good enough. Every once in a while I get a critique or suggestion from somebody and it may sting a little but, over the years I have developed elephant hide and take it as a way to continue improving.

The one thing that disturbs me most is the planetary infliction of visual pollution that has ruined our communities. I'm all for laws that will punish the graphically challenged because it has gotten that bad.

So if you aren't pissing and moaning by this post then I suggest you focus your education on design and layout. For those of you in the business ten years or more and never heard of Mike Stevens book "The art of eye appeal" I suggest you pony of a few bucks and invest in your future.

Good design isn't just a tool, its the key to your financial success as well. When you can design with the best of them, you can command premium prices and who the hell here doesn't want to get top dollar for your talent and skill?

Something to think about....
 

msigns

New Member
Thanks for a great post. Your suggestions are well taken. I was an art instructor for 8 years before going into the sign business in the Bay area. It all happened because my new brother in law was already an accomplished and well known sign painter. He needed help one summer, so I tried my hand at it. I quit teaching that year. Fortunately, my BIL knew Mike Stevens and we took lessons from him.I was amazed at his talent. The main thing I learned was that all of the elements of design , applied to art , were used in sign layout. As a note, at one time in the Bay area there were 16 sign franchises(the fastest growing business at the time) and few remain.
 

Andy D

Active Member
After 20 plus years in the business, I still consider my myself a mediocre designer and I can't design a logo to save my life...
but that's okay, I excel in other areas of the craft.
 

Andrew Allen

New Member
I too started out in the days of handlettering before computers. I was fortunate enough in my persistence and hero worship of sign painters to get to be trained by three of the best. Back then, sweeping the floor was considered an integral part of your training. Often, the most time spent with a brush in hand was filling in on larger letters the master painter cut in the lines for you on. I'll never forget when the day finally came that I git handed my first work order to entirely do on my own, I was standing and beaming beside my creation, ready for the praise of the master. His comment was "that looks like fifty cents worth of dog shit". That is what I often want to tell newbies who post their work on here. Unfortunately, we all know where that would lead. But it's a truth - one that surely hurts as it did when I heard it froma guy I deeply admired. But it didn't stop me. I took it when he made me clean the layout off and start over from his layout. I learned why his worked and mine didn't. I took it to heart he only wanted me to produce the best going out of his shop. It's an attitude far too lacking in any of the current crop of wannabes to this profession. I share your observation about the visual pollution many of them are producing. If only they'd be more willing to actually learn.

Love the dog shit quote.
 

player

New Member
Can someone please tell me how to post a question on the Forums page?

You go to the list of forum by clicking on "Forums" at the top of the page. Then you choose which sub-forum your question best fits into. Tips and Tricks, or Printers, or Installation etc. Click on the sub-forum of your choice, then at the top right click to start a new topic.
 

SignDesignLady

Always Learning
As a lifelong artist, self taught designer and signmaker for 10+ years, I totally agree. I firmly believe that we never stop learning. I take classes and attend webinars whenever my schedule allows. I subscribe to industry publications that showcase the "creme de la creme" of signs, stories of how certain signs came about and how they are constructed and I am humbled by some of the truly great artisans in this industry.
 
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