Avery MPI1005 EZ RS +DOL1360 vs 3M 180CV3 + 8518

[reQ]

I am using 3m digital wrap media for couple years now. I like it. But the only thing that sort of makes me dislike it that its not really repositionable. Once you squeegee it on the vehicle, its not that easy to lift it if you have to re-do it again. I liked avery wrap media due to how easy it is to install, but after hearing all horror stories about it i never used it anymore. Thing is, i have a fleet of 15 vehicles to do soon & really like the idea of using Avery again. I can install MUCH faster with it. Who is using lots of it in their shop? Am i scared for nothing & should pull the trigger & use Avery again?

 

[FatCat]

Been using Avery for 95% of our jobs for the past 3-4 years. I do like 3M, but its priced too high and my installers prefer Avery since its much easier to work with. New Avery is coming out this month that will be more compatible with solvent and latex...will see how that pans out. We still have 4-5 rolls of 1005 here to use up by end of year...

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

We really like the Avery 1005 over the 3M for both price and install performance.

The New 1105 is not behaving well for us on the print side of things but Avery and HP is working with us to get it resolved, seems to be a optimizer issue (Needs more than other vinyls).

 

[reQ]

Just talked to the supplier here who sells Avery products & will give it a shot.

 

[neil_se]

Having had problems with printing MPI1005 on our L260, we'd been using 180CV3 for the past 9 months. We've now been through a few rolls of the new MPI1105 and my guys are loving using Avery again. I haven't tried printing it with my L360 yet though.

 

[reQ]

I heard about problems with latex machines yup, but i will be printing with Roland solvent printer, so should be just fine.

Thank you for feedback guys, looking forward for easier installs

 

[BigfishDM]

Do any of you remember how bad Avery screwed over the whole entire industry when their main product line failed back in the late 90's? I see they just purchased Mac-Tac but I would never recommend an Avery material simply based on the fact that they burnt a lot of bridges back in the day.

A lot of installers love the way it goes down but are the installers the ones who have to PAY to reprint returned jobs, are your installers the ones who have to talk to your pissed off accounts? Its crazy to see the power that installers have in the market, I hear it all the time "my installers will only use 3M" or "my installers will only use Avery". Screw that, they are going to install what I tell them to install or I'm going to find a new install guy/girl. Unless your install person is paying for the printing and dealing with your client why let them tell you what you HAVE to use? Granted I know its not like that everywhere but I do see it a lot.

 

[Christian @ 2CT Media]

Do any of you remember how bad Avery screwed over the whole entire industry when their main product line failed back in the late 90's? I see they just purchased Mac-Tac but I would never recommend an Avery material simply based on the fact that they burnt a lot of bridges back in the day.

A lot of installers love the way it goes down but are the installers the ones who have to PAY to reprint returned jobs, are your installers the ones who have to talk to your pissed off accounts? Its crazy to see the power that installers have in the market, I hear it all the time "my installers will only use 3M" or "my installers will only use Avery". Screw that, they are going to install what I tell them to install or I'm going to find a new install guy/girl. Unless your install person is paying for the printing and dealing with your client why let them tell you what you HAVE to use? Granted I know its not like that everywhere but I do see it a lot.

The issue with using what the installers prefer comes down to cost and efficiency. We outsource most of our installs so for our case it's not as big of a deal, but when we had installers on staff it came down to time. It took 2-3 hours more to install Arlon or etc vs 3m and Avery takes about an hour less.

It sucks Avery screwed over the industry in the past but we also got burned by 3M over the last 2 years for a few of their laminates that they werent willing to take responsibility for either. It cost us over $50,000 for the initial materials, the removal, replacement printing and reinstall all on our dime. So need less to say I tell all my clients that the 3M "warranty" is worthless so don't pay extra for their material.

 

[BigfishDM]

The issue with using what the installers prefer comes down to cost and efficiency. We outsource most of our installs so for our case it's not as big of a deal, but when we had installers on staff it came down to time. It took 2-3 hours more to install Arlon or etc vs 3m and Avery takes about an hour less.

It sucks Avery screwed over the industry in the past but we also got burned by 3M over the last 2 years for a few of their laminates that they werent willing to take responsibility for either. It cost us over $50,000 for the initial materials, the removal, replacement printing and reinstall all on our dime. So need less to say I tell all my clients that the 3M "warranty" is worthless so don't pay extra for their material.

Yes I can understand that, but a good installer can install any of the big name brands. I have always referred installers who charge by the sq.ft not by the hour, I know plenty of guys who can take name brand and even NO-NAME brand cast vinyl and install just as fast as 3M guys would.

 

[FatCat]

Yes I can understand that, but a good installer can install any of the big name brands. I have always referred installers who charge by the sq.ft not by the hour, I know plenty of guys who can take name brand and even NO-NAME brand cast vinyl and install just as fast as 3M guys would.

Actually, any installers are actually hard to find in my area. Installers that know what they are doing even more so, and great installers are already up to their eyeballs in work and can pretty much name their price and terms. We're not a big enough shop to have a full time wrap installer on payroll, so we sub it out between 2 different installers. Both are priced competitively, do great work and stand behind their product. Likewise BOTH prefer Avery over any other material out there due to ease of install and its easier on their hands and arms. I don't let them dictate, but I listen - add that to the fact that Avery is about 20% less expensive per wrap kit than 3M and its a win-win. And as far as durability we've not seen anything over the past 3-4 years that would lead us to believe Avery isn't on-par with 3M. Now granted, I don't dislike 3M, but if they want my business they need to price their material a little better.

 

[Bly]

We use 1105 and have been liking it.
Prints great in our 360s.

 

[T_K]

I started out in the industry using the Avery 1005 for wraps. No experience with 3M for comparison - probably because my boss didn't want to pay the premium price they offer.
Had to use up a roll of FDC wrap vinyl when I started my current job, and it definitely wasn't close to the performance of Avery. Made the switch as soon as I could.
Recently went through 2 or 3 rolls of the 1105 series on a eco-sol printer, and I haven't been able to notice much of a difference over the 1005. But maybe I haven't known what improvements to look for?

Overall, I think it does a good job. So I'd recommend the cost savings over 3M

 

[Kentucky Wraps]

Yes I can understand that, but a good installer can install any of the big name brands. I have always referred installers who charge by the sq.ft not by the hour, ...

Sure, a good installer "CAN" install any of the big name brands but they ALL have preferences. Ease of Use and Time to Install dictate why they prefer one over the others.
In combining that fact with your next statement of course you prefer to pay per sq.ft. rather than per hour. Really? Regardless of how much time it takes or what the quality looks like?
I don't wrap by the hour. There are Far Too Many variables that affect the install time on a vehicle wrap. (environment, material, vehicle body type, prep, obstructions, temperature, hardware, lighting, etc)
If they are using Avery and it takes them 6 hours or Orajet and it takes them 9 hours... You'd be paying a slow installer the same as a fast installer.

Paying installers By the sq. ft. is ridiculous to me unless it's a box truck, trailer, or store front windows.
It would have to be different amounts per sq. ft. depending on the vehicle and the vinyl and maybe even the registration involved.
If it's aggressive vinyl, in a dirty bay, with lots of registration on a vehicle with lots of windows, handles, bumpers, etc...that is going to take much more skill and time than a Cargo Van will. I would say, each vehicle has a certain "VALUE" as an "installed product" and should be billed accordingly.

Some guy in town may charge $2 per sq. ft. on a Box Truck and I may charge $2.50. I may do it in 1 day and they may take 2 days. Which is a better value?

I know plenty of guys who can take name brand and even NO-NAME brand cast vinyl and install just as fast as 3M guys would.[/QUO

Balogna!

Nothing personal, I've just been down this road with folks too many times who ARE NOT installers.

 

[I Branding]

We are currently using Avery 1105/1060 for a huge Fleet program, 405 53' Full wrap trailers by end of 2016 and then another 890 53' Full wrap trailers in 2017. And we are only using Avery 1105/1060. I used the same material at my previous employer and from a price point and how much the installers like it that is what we are pushing. The only issue I have is that the coating on the material from time to time is bad on the rolls and we end up returning rolls but Avery always credits us the money and fixes the issue really quick.

 

[JoeBoomer]

I prefer 3M, but that was when price wasn't an issue. Now I print on Avery and I'm less than thrilled. It seems like it discolors faster when heating it up and isn't as easy or durable as 3M. Price is much better though, so that pretty much dictates it anyway.

Printing on a HP L26500 & L360

 

[JoeBoomer]

We are currently using Avery 1105/1060 for a huge Fleet program, 405 53' Full wrap trailers by end of 2016 and then another 890 53' Full wrap trailers in 2017. And we are only using Avery 1105/1060. I used the same material at my previous employer and from a price point and how much the installers like it that is what we are pushing. The only issue I have is that the coating on the material from time to time is bad on the rolls and we end up returning rolls but Avery always credits us the money and fixes the issue really quick.

I just had to return a roll because of the coating also. (1/3 rolls ~ not good)

The only issue I ever had with 3M was a bad roll of laminate that ended up shrinking like 3/4" after a month or so (check my earlier posts for pictures). (1 out of 1500 rolls)

 

[Seano77]

I have used both 3m and Avery products for years. No major problems with latex or solvent printing although i prefer latex do to dry times and ease of install. I am a certified installer form both manufacturers and have installed hundreds of wraps and my go to material is 3m 180cv3/8518 lam. I have had more problems with Avery lifting on edges and grooves. I always thought Avery was geared towards new/inexperienced installers. I dont particularly like the repositionable or "slip" of Avery. When 3m usually sticks it sticks well and i dont have to go back and rework it.