Banding in greens/pinks 700w

[Vector Vinyl]

Ran cleaning and alignment. basically perfect printing on the status chart. No clogged nozzles. Tried replacing Optimizer printhead because i saw the some bleeding too, fixed the bleeding but no change to the banding. Just showing in Pink and Green. I’m sure i should know this by now but what’s the general cause if it’s not the printheads? Or can the status chart print perfect and still have clogged nozzles not shown? Thanks in advance!

 

[BigNate]

Show an image of the chart - and how old are the rest of the printheads? Can you show a pic? on the 700w, more passes can reduce banding from older printheads, but the best solution is to just replace them - they are cheap compared to other printing technology.

 

[Vector Vinyl]

Show an image of the chart - and how old are the rest of the printheads? Can you show a pic? on the 700w, more passes can reduce banding from older printheads, but the best solution is to just replace them - they are cheap compared to other printing technology.

I guess i was just under the impression that if no heads were clogged then it wouldn’t cause issues but now that i say it i guess that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Back when i had my 315 it was definitely the case. Maybe it just shows up differently on this printer? Issues i mean.

 

[BigNate]

going only off of the pic you just sent, I would start from scratch and try to get a good clean patch - nice edges on all solid areas, the fills should look smooth.... the black is missing a few nozzles. But something may be going on with your optimizer as well as this can help the edges....

For my 700W I would replace any older printheads - though a fresh set and saving any you think may have some life will make things easier here - then print the whole test to see a density range and how well it cures..... get a setup that has crisp edges to the solids and your banding will likely go away as well.

 

[Vector Vinyl]

going only off of the pic you just sent, I would start from scratch and try to get a good clean patch - nice edges on all solid areas, the fills should look smooth.... the black is missing a few nozzles. But something may be going on with your optimizer as well as this can help the edges....

For my 700W I would replace any older printheads - though a fresh set and saving any you think may have some life will make things easier here - then print the whole test to see a density range and how well it cures..... get a setup that has crisp edges to the solids and your banding will likely go away as well.

I replaced the optimizer already. so i know it’s not that. I guess i would have expected to see a lot more missing out of the nozzles for it to actually affect anything like this.

 

[BigNate]

I replaced the optimizer already. so i know it’s not that. I guess i would have expected to see a lot more missing out of the nozzles for it to actually affect anything like this.

whether or not you replaced the optimizer, the edges of the printing are not crisp - this says there is a problem with how the ink is being sprayed. The spray is controlled quite a bit by the optimizer spray being very consistent. Again, from the print you sent, I can only suggest starting with all fresh ink setup - your black is missing nozzles, and the edges are not crisp. This is most likely a printhead problem.

try running the nozzle check pattern for all the heads and see what that looks like.

 

[balstestrat]

I guess i was just under the impression that if no heads were clogged then it wouldn’t cause issues but now that i say it i guess that doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Back when i had my 315 it was definitely the case. Maybe it just shows up differently on this printer? Issues i mean.

You are looking at the wrong test print, that's a spit bar and it's looking absolutely perfect. Rest of it is for machine reading the alignment. Would be stupid to replace any head just because of that.

Look at your nozzle check or post images of the green and purple banding. If it's dark to light zone banding you can't fix it 100% and again replacing printheads is a waste of money.

 

[BigNate]

You are looking at the wrong test print, that's a spit bar and it's looking absolutely perfect. Rest of it is for machine reading the alignment. Would be stupid to replace any head just because of that.

Look at your nozzle check or post images of the green and purple banding. If it's dark to light zone banding you can't fix it 100% and again replacing printheads is a waste of money.

yes, need more test patterns - especially the specific nozzle check... you can deduce some info from the print he provided - the edges of all the solids are not crisp. there are not too many things that will do this as well as cause banding,

to say it is perfect? well, it is printed as the printer needs it. perfect would show cleaner edges...... look at the black by itself on the bottom, something is going on there, not enough info to deduce what. or much beyond needing the correct test pattern.

 

[balstestrat]

yes, need more test patterns - especially the specific nozzle check... you can deduce some info from the print he provided - the edges of all the solids are not crisp. there are not too many things that will do this as well as cause banding,

to say it is perfect? well, it is printed as the printer needs it. perfect would show cleaner edges...... look at the black by itself on the bottom, something is going on there, not enough info to deduce what. or much beyond needing the correct test pattern.

Again that's not for you to visually look at. That's why you think there's something wrong but it's not.

 

[BigNate]

Again that's not for you to visually look at. That's why you think there's something wrong but it's not.

okay. but it is repeatable on my end... you see rough edges and then do the correct test pattern to test for the Optimizer condition and you see there are problems - so the print he shows is NOT definitive for a bad Optimizer head, BUT IT POINTS to which test to try next, rather than just a shotgun and piss-in-the-wind (or post to a forum) and hope for a fix....

if you see my second response I did suggest he runs the nozzle check as well as post a pic of the current status of all printheads - first response was for a pic of the problem...

 

[Vector Vinyl]

yes, need more test patterns - especially the specific nozzle check... you can deduce some info from the print he provided - the edges of all the solids are not crisp. there are not too many things that will do this as well as cause banding,

to say it is perfect? well, it is printed as the printer needs it. perfect would show cleaner edges...... look at the black by itself on the bottom, something is going on there, not enough info to deduce what. or much beyond needing the correct test pattern.

What i meant by perfect is that there aren’t chunks of the print missing to show clogged heads. I tested and old printhead and you can visibly see like half the heads clogged. Found out the issue (above).

 

[Vector Vinyl]

Ran cleaning and alignment. basically perfect printing on the status chart. No clogged nozzles. Tried replacing Optimizer printhead because i saw the some bleeding too, fixed the bleeding but no change to the banding. Just showing in Pink and Green. I’m sure i should know this by now but what’s the general cause if it’s not the printheads? Or can the status chart print perfect and still have clogged nozzles not shown? Thanks in advance!

Issue was the optimizer printhead. One had gone out and the other one (brand new) i had was defective - just weird that it was causing the exact problem as the one that was just old. Bought another new one and it was fine. Literally has happened before so. i don’t know why i didn’t think about the brand new one being bad. Anyway thanks for taking a look at the issue guys.

 

[BigNate]

Issue was the optimizer printhead. One had gone out and the other one (brand new) i had was defective - just weird that it was causing the exact problem as the one that was just old. Bought another new one and it was fine. Literally has happened before so. i don’t know why i didn’t think about the brand new one being bad. Anyway thanks for taking a look at the issue guys.

I have had a few optimizer printheads go bad - and new ones as well.

I am glad you fixed it. The real clue for me is the edges - the optimizer spray is supposed to constrain the droplets of the inks. As such when the edges that should be crisp are not, the finger points pretty straight at the optimizer. (and yes, the test pattern was not the correct to see this, but again, any edge that should be crisp and is not gives data - if a single color is fuzzy then maybe it is the color, but if all the colors have fuzzy edges, then the main common element is the optimizer.)

 

[BigNate]

Again that's not for you to visually look at. That's why you think there's something wrong but it's not.

dude, the edges on the print are fuzzy - the issue was the optimizer printhead... and again, I agree with you that the test print provided was not intended to give this information. the definitive test would be the nozzle check.

 

[balstestrat]

dude, the edges on the print are fuzzy - the issue was the optimizer printhead... and again, I agree with you that the test print provided was not intended to give this information. the definitive test would be the nozzle check.

It doesn't use optimizer in the above image...

 

[BigNate]

It doesn't use optimizer in the above image...

I hate to keep going on on this as I was not an engineer on the HP 700w. I, however, run one quite a bit. I showed this thread to our HP tech while he was replacing the white balance reference on our 700w - he absolutely agreed that it points to optimize and to run a nozzle check... I have had this issue a lot and seen this same print, totally repeatable with a bad optimizer printhead.

so let's agree to disagree.

All I really know is from witnessing a few failed optimizer printheads: with a pretty bad optimizer spray pattern my 700w will make almost an exact duplicate of the "wrong" test pattern every time... and the edges get crisper with fresh OP printheads. This is what I know - I have seen no technical manual saying what inks are sprayed on each pattern - I do have a microscope I look at the drop pattern, and you can see what I interpret as the clear OP on a fresh, uncured print....

 

[P Wagner]

There is a test plot to assess Optimizer printhead performance - see attached. It is located within the Optimize Quality screen. Use 54-inch wide media or larger for this diagnostic plot.

 

[BigNate]

There is a test plot to assess Optimizer printhead performance - see attached. It is located within the Optimize Quality screen. Use 54-inch wide media or larger for this diagnostic plot.

you are correct....

data can also be seen elsewhere indicating the need to print this test.

 

[balstestrat]

I hate to keep going on on this as I was not an engineer on the HP 700w. I, however, run one quite a bit. I showed this thread to our HP tech while he was replacing the white balance reference on our 700w - he absolutely agreed that it points to optimize and to run a nozzle check... I have had this issue a lot and seen this same print, totally repeatable with a bad optimizer printhead.

so let's agree to disagree.

All I really know is from witnessing a few failed optimizer printheads: with a pretty bad optimizer spray pattern my 700w will make almost an exact duplicate of the "wrong" test pattern every time... and the edges get crisper with fresh OP printheads. This is what I know - I have seen no technical manual saying what inks are sprayed on each pattern - I do have a microscope I look at the drop pattern, and you can see what I interpret as the clear OP on a fresh, uncured print....

Then I wouldn't trust that guy too much.

Here's another. Brand new machine, brand new ink, new printheads, all performing 100%. But it's a spit bar. Waste of ink. There is no optimizer being used so you can't see any "data indicating" issues. It's simply bullshit.
And optimizer is being aligned few minutes later anyway, no point using it here misaligned. It would not hit the correct spot.

It makes way bigger difference on what substrate you print the tests on or who manufactured it, was it monomeric or cast etc.

 

[BigNate]

Then I wouldn't trust that guy too much.

Here's another. Brand new machine, brand new ink, new printheads, all performing 100%. But it's a spit bar. Waste of ink. There is no optimizer being used so you can't see any "data indicating" issues. It's simply bullshit.
And optimizer is being aligned few minutes later anyway, no point using it here misaligned. It would not hit the correct spot.

It makes way bigger difference on what substrate you print the tests on or who manufactured it, was it monomeric or cast etc.

I agree that the plot you just sent is the same type of plot and that the artifact around the edges that shows fuzzy when optomizer goes out are much crisper on your print than on the OP's. I do not see any indication of OP issue in the print you sent...

look at the edges of your black - even the mottling has precisely defined edges - his print does not. Now, again I am neither an engineer nor a technician for HP. But I have on many occasions seen the fuzzy edge that I see on the OP's print and have found the final issue to be a bad optimizer system - usually the printhead. (feel and believe whatever you would like - I personally take the data I see when running the machine and see what is reproducible and what is not... at least in this instance I believe my initial assessment from the fuzzy edges to be correct.)