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Question Banner Woes

SignGai

New Member
Hello and thank you to all who read this.

I work in production for a relatively small sign outfit but we've been expanding over the last several years, at least in clientele and new equipment.
A few years ago, my boss/owner suggested getting an automated grommet machine for banners. I've worked with one before at a previous job where we did large volume in banners, that was table mounted with a built-in iron hemming plate. Personally, I didn't think we really needed one since 1) we really didn't have the space for it and our production table is only about 10 feet and 2) we simply don't do that kind of volume, save for graduation season but he said it would make finishing banners much easier and more efficient and save a lot of time so I said, "Sure, you're the boss."

One day, a big crate arrives and what we got was a Jopevi J-239 Dual Feed:
J-239-ollaos-con-arandelas-1.jpg

Ours didn't come with the additional ruler guide plate mounted on the table but sufficed to say, this thing has been a nightmare since day 1. In spite of making all the proper adjustments, it still mispunches and mangles the banner material every 3 or 4 punches and frequently jams, where I nearly pulled a groin, several times, unjamming it, wasting grommets in the process. Worse still is on larger banners, I end up dragging and crumpling either end on the floor while trying to add grommets, picking up dirt and often scraping the print since there doesn't seem to be any logistical way to work this thing onto a production table so aside from wasting grommets, there's often reprints to boot.

It's not only made my job harder compared to the manual grommet lever machine but it's has just been living hell. The real reason he got this thing was he was looking for a big-ticket item for a year-end write-off but now that we have it, I'm obligated to use it as it takes #2 grommets whereas the manual machine takes #1's and they will not let me order #1 grommets or a #2 die kit for the manual puncher. It's like digging a hole with a rake when there's a perfectly good shovel right over there but since we spent $8,000 on that rake, it's digging holes.

Does anyone in the community have any experience with this model and if so, any suggestions for printed banners or is this my eternal damnation?
 

FireSprint.com

Trade Only Screen & Digital Sign Printing
Sounds more like a vent then a request for help... ;)

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but your mindset is a big part of what's holding you back here. The machine might actually suck (I have no experience with it) but automatic grommet machines, in general, take some finesse and experience to get operating smoothly.

Have you reached out to the vendor yet?

We love our Hiker automatic machine, but we do have to make regular adjustments to keep it firing correctly. For a while, we have a pair of bent nose pliers to peel bad grommets out of banner or coro.
 

SignGai

New Member
Sounds more like a vent then a request for help... ;)

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but your mindset is a big part of what's holding you back here. The machine might actually suck (I have no experience with it) but automatic grommet machines, in general, take some finesse and experience to get operating smoothly.

Have you reached out to the vendor yet?

We love our Hiker automatic machine, but we do have to make regular adjustments to keep it firing correctly. For a while, we have a pair of bent nose pliers to peel bad grommets out of banner or coro.
Definitely some venting going on but as I've said, I've worked with grommet machines before but they were also designed with banners and large scale materials in mind.
I have to make adjustments with about every 3rd or 4th punch due to a mispunch and jams.
bnc5oXF.jpg
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I oil it reguarly. The main two factors that I can see is 1) Not having a large surface to keep the banner flat while running it along the machine and 2) The adhesive from the banner tape on the hem may be causing issues with the punch, although it really shouldn't.

Regardless, neither even addresses the fact that 90% of the banner winds up on the floor while running the machine. Having another production person stand there and hold the banner off the ground while administering grommets is not only not ideal but idiotic.

I haven't been able to find a single video of someone using this machine besides simple demonstrations with a piece of cloth or little novelty items.

I've contacted RSK Sales who originally sold this to my owner but they don't do support. I've tried contacting Jopevi but they're based out of Spain so they haven't been particularly helpful.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Maybe need to build some tables around it so you can ramp in and out with the banner flat. We did that when we started stitching banners and it made it much easier and kept the prints off the floor. Does not have to be permanent - we butted up 8ft tables to each side of the sewing stand and got them all on the same level.
 

SignGai

New Member
Maybe need to build some tables around it so you can ramp in and out with the banner flat. We did that when we started stitching banners and it made it much easier and kept the prints off the floor. Does not have to be permanent - we butted up 8ft tables to each side of the sewing stand and got them all on the same level.
The problem is the way the punch zone is situated. It doesn't turn or swivel so you can't stand on the other side of the machine and run it from behind because you'd have to bend over and can't see the punch zone from behind. The wheel and motor casing is a huge blind spot. Space also being an issue. It's currently tucked in the corner between the electrical room and the receiving door because we have a COLEX flatbed cutter, an HP Scitex Flatbed Printer and an application production table all in the space of a 2-car garage.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Run it from the front. Set some short tables up on each side so you have a "U" shaped workspace in front of the grommet machine. Depending on the size of your banners fold them down the long side and then roll it up with the seam getting the grommets exposed. roll it into the machine and then roll it up on the exit side - re-fold and roll for the other side. We seam and grommet (by hand) 195"x 118" banners without them touching the floor on two 4'x8' tables end to end.
 

SignGai

New Member
Run it from the front. Set some short tables up on each side so you have a "U" shaped workspace in front of the grommet machine. Depending on the size of your banners fold them down the long side and then roll it up with the seam getting the grommets exposed. roll it into the machine and then roll it up on the exit side - re-fold and roll for the other side. We seam and grommet (by hand) 195"x 118" banners without them touching the floor on two 4'x8' tables end to end.
I mean, by hand, I had no problems what so ever. I could hand grommet a banner of any size no problem, cleanly, quickly and not lose a single grommet. I only have about a 4'x6' work area to run the grommet machine and the grommet machine itself takes up about 2'x3'. As I've said, it's very tight so moving a table over or vice versa isn't feasible. Rolling up a banner to do one side is still going to be dragging on the floor like a wet pool noodle. Then after one side, I'd have to unroll it and roll it up again to do the other side. I'd be doing that 3 times over, per banner when I could simply fold the banner in half and walk around the table with the hand grommet puncher, which they won't let me use and just flip it over to do the other side.

I'm frustrated because I was ten times more productive with the hand grommet puncher and was also capable of putting grommets in foamboard and composite aluminum(dibond) without ruining the substrate.
I was hoping someone might be familiar with this model but it seems, by and large, noone in the sign industry uses this thing.
 

GAC05

Quit buggin' me
Unit looks like it is not cheap and as you said people are pretty good at setting grommets by hand so maybe not too many smaller shops have that at the top of their equipment list.
If you can't talk your boss into selling it or giving you enough room to make it work - put some wheels on it and roll it over to the application/layout table when it's grommet time, use the space, then shove it back into the corner.
If that's a no-go build a frame in your 4x6 space so you can hang a 54" or 60" media core on both sides of the machine. Roll the banner onto a core using the layout table - run it through the grommet setter and wind it on to the empty core as you go. Switch the full core with the empty one and do the other long side. Short sides should be easy with most of the banner still wound up on a core.
If you have to make it work - make it work.
 

unclebun

Active Member
After looking on the manufacturer's website and even the websites of the companies that sell this machine, I would say that this machine is not made for grommeting banners. The biggest issue is if the operator has to stand right in front of the machine, where is the banner supposed to go while it's being grommeted? The largest piece I saw being grommeted in the videos was a curtain, maybe a shower curtain. It was hanging straight down towards the operator's feet. But banner material isn't that soft, and with a printed banner, having it wadded and bunched like that risks damaging the ink. In addition, none of the videos showed the material being advanced through the machine. They push the material in from the front, put a grommet in, and then pull it out and find the next spot, push it in and so on. All in all, much slower than having a lever operated grommet machine and doing it manually. Much less if you are getting misfeed and jamming problems.
 
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