Question Best flatbed for printing corrugated plastic

[jay etheredge]

Barry, I can highly recommend the CET and Vanguard products as I sell both of them. I'm sure in Ma. you heard of Alpha Imaging which I ran in NY for 17 years. I've sold and supported many of these as well as the HP Fb's and the Colorspan printers they used to be before HP bought them. I've also sold quite a few Oce Canon flatbed UV printers.
One of the things you should seriously consider is purchasing one that has LED UV lights instead of the old school UV Lights which get incredibly hot and don't last too long.
If speed is the issue, the CET and Vanguard can be updated down the road or right up front for the quickest printing. If double sided is a high volume of what you do, Hybrid printers are not your best choice. The FB printers from HP are decent hybrid printers but the future of them is an issue.
I Can get you a printer capable of 4'x8' at the highest speeds right now with LED UV lights for under $100k, delivered, installed and color profiled so you can match pantone colors.
Feel free to contact me - 631-520-3074 if you would like more info.
This way we can discuss all the needs for what you produce.

What printer can you sell under or at $100k that prints at the highest speed? There's a one pass printer that prints 500 4 x 8s an hour at 1,7 million, but realistically, lets not get confusing here. How many seconds does it take your $100k printer take to print a 4' x 8' sheet with no banding?
Looks like fast talk. Hybreds are not the way to go. The best prints are on true flatbeds. A 3 row 1024i printer with 12 konicai printheads can do a 4' x 8' sheet in 90 seconds approximately and the printheads are very durable and single channel which is the way to go. Anyone telling you differently is trying to pull a fast one on you because the kyosera printheads are temperamental, 2 channel, $11k per head salesman's dreams. Ricoh head machines are slow.....

 

[V. V.]

Sorry for the off the topic post though, but is here any place I can search for the open FSE position?
I'm highly experienced in digital inkjet printing as well as digital finishing (ESKO Kongsberg) and so on.

 

[Jun Lanon]

What printer can you sell under or at $100k that prints at the highest speed? There's a one pass printer that prints 500 4 x 8s an hour at 1,7 million, but realistically, lets not get confusing here. How many seconds does it take your $100k printer take to print a 4' x 8' sheet with no banding?
Looks like fast talk. Hybreds are not the way to go. The best prints are on true flatbeds. A 3 row 1024i printer with 12 konicai printheads can do a 4' x 8' sheet in 90 seconds approximately and the printheads are very durable and single channel which is the way to go. Anyone telling you differently is trying to pull a fast one on you because the kyosera printheads are temperamental, 2 channel, $11k per head salesman's dreams. Ricoh head machines are slow.....

Stratojet sells below or at $100k with the same speed as your flora. Stratojet new 4'x8' at $65k, also offers CMYK times 3 (3 rows) on a 6'x10'. Much better quality as it uses gen 5 which is 7 pl, compared to Konica 1024 which is at 14pl. The price is an MSRP since Stratojet is a manufacturing company and not a distributor or a third party.

 

[Emd2kick]

Hi Guys,

I like the OP want a fast flatbed w/ perfect color match, but I don't want to spend the money.....
Are there any flatbeds that include an operator as well? (hyperbole)

These forums are becoming extra special.

 

[johnnysigns]

Depending on what RIP system you run it's not a huge pain in the ass to set up spot color matches with or without a spectrophotometer. We're a long time silkscreen printer that went digital 12yrs ago so I feel your pain in terms of ink matches. Color gamut and ink density will suffer on a mid level machine that you're intending to run at full speed for the output you want to achieve speed wise. I'd think on a $100-$150K machine you could do color matches quite easily on the slow and mid level presets, but if you're running it on it's express or highest speed modes color matching will suffer.

The Hybrid will be more efficient for multisheet runs, however I haven't ever seen one that registers the prints that well for guillotine cutting later on through an entire run - not without presquaring the sheets if tight registration is a concern. If that's not a big deal it would make sense to look at that Vs a true flat bed.

 

[Barry Carl]

Depending on what RIP system you run it's not a huge pain in the *** to set up spot color matches with or without a spectrophotometer. We're a long time silkscreen printer that went digital 12yrs ago so I feel your pain in terms of ink matches. Color gamut and ink density will suffer on a mid level machine that you're intending to run at full speed for the output you want to achieve speed wise. I'd think on a $100-$150K machine you could do color matches quite easily on the slow and mid level presets, but if you're running it on it's express or highest speed modes color matching will suffer.

The Hybrid will be more efficient for multisheet runs, however I haven't ever seen one that registers the prints that well for guillotine cutting later on through an entire run - not without presquaring the sheets if tight registration is a concern. If that's not a big deal it would make sense to look at that Vs a true flat bed.

My concern with the hybrid is registration. Not necessarily on the coro but for other work I plan to use the flatbed for. I'm tired of the low margins on the corrugated but It will help pay for the machine while I go after the polystyrene, packaging, poster work etc. Looking at Vanguard, EFi and Mimaki flatbeds.

 

[Jun Lanon]

Depending on what RIP system you run it's not a huge pain in the *** to set up spot color matches with or without a spectrophotometer. We're a long time silkscreen printer that went digital 12yrs ago so I feel your pain in terms of ink matches. Color gamut and ink density will suffer on a mid level machine that you're intending to run at full speed for the output you want to achieve speed wise. I'd think on a $100-$150K machine you could do color matches quite easily on the slow and mid level presets, but if you're running it on it's express or highest speed modes color matching will suffer.

The Hybrid will be more efficient for multisheet runs, however I haven't ever seen one that registers the prints that well for guillotine cutting later on through an entire run - not without presquaring the sheets if tight registration is a concern. If that's not a big deal it would make sense to look at that Vs a true flat bed.

That's not accurate. It depends on the machine as well. Some machines provide quality print with more than 30 minutes for a 4x8 sheet while other machine takes 8 min quality print on a 4x8 sheet. Some are fast print but quality is not good. Some are fast print and quality at the same time. It also depends on the print head being used. Konica Minolta 1024i is for speed but less quality. Ricoh Gen 5 is for speed and quality. It doesn't matter the speed and print directions being used, color profile will still be the same on my machine.

 

[V. V.]

Konica Minolta 1024i

WTF? It's total 666% bullshit!
KM 1024i has 6pl drop size, which is a regular industry standard now. If you in doubt about its print quality then check SwissQprint Nyala 2 or 3 printers. 217 sq.m./h. by 2 passes with the outstanding quality prints without any banding or any other "usual UV problems".

There are no any bad print head on a market, BUT there are loads of shitty 1.driving electronics
2.inks
3.FSE who set machines incorrectly
4.stupid users
5.eventually, software

 

[Zach Starr]

I would agree with you as well. There is no bad printhead. It all depends on the application you are looking to do. KM1024i and Ricoh Gen5 both are great printheads. Quality Inks, Drives, Machine all are important factors.

I would recommend the Stratojet Flatbed Printers, they have good UV printers, a great solution if you want high production and quality. Very simple and to the point printers, and there support is nice too. I have worked with their Shark machines for few years, its a good product.

But If you have a budget 750k- 1 mil you can even consider the single pass machine like Inca and Durst..

 

[clarizeyale]

same boat regarding fb550! (ahhhh hope I don't get flagged for this again lol)

We are upgrading our flatbed to a new Latex FB. R1000
Looking for a new home for our FB550 if you are interested, let me know
Perfect working condition. Still in operation. Houston TX

 

[BALLPARK]

I would purchase Vutek GS 3250+ series. New makes it only affordable for the largest of companies. But Global Garage and other sites have plenty of affordable GS series on the market.

They are fast... they are built like a tank... they are my favorite brand for a printer in our industry. We still operate an old 2006 QS series and it gets 9-12 4x8 sheets per hour. The GS runs circles around our QS series. The newest of their series in the H3 and HS are super fast, but they cost quite a bit more. They are 15+ year machines and the quality of the build is impressive.

I think you can buy good condition used Vutek or Durst for the price of a new lower class flatbed and walk away with a smile on your face.

Give me a used GS series over any new entry to mid level flatbed printer. [HASHTAG]#VutekLover[/HASHTAG]

 

[Zach Starr]

I would purchase Vutek GS 3250+ series. New makes it only affordable for the largest of companies. But Global Garage and other sites have plenty of affordable GS series on the market.

They are fast... they are built like a tank... they are my favorite brand for a printer in our industry. We still operate an old 2006 QS series and it gets 9-12 4x8 sheets per hour. The GS runs circles around our QS series. The newest of their series in the H3 and HS are super fast, but they cost quite a bit more. They are 15+ year machines and the quality of the build is impressive.

I think you can buy good condition used Vutek or Durst for the price of a new lower class flatbed and walk away with a smile on your face.

Give me a used GS series over any new entry to mid level flatbed printer. [HASHTAG]#VutekLover[/HASHTAG]

I don't agree with you, have used the Vutek.. Its good only till its running. Once that machine breaks, $$$$, support and service is super expensive. For people, that have huge capital to just give it away can only afford this machine. Durst I am not sure, never used it..

 

[johnnysigns]

That's not accurate. It depends on the machine as well. Some machines provide quality print with more than 30 minutes for a 4x8 sheet while other machine takes 8 min quality print on a 4x8 sheet. Some are fast print but quality is not good. Some are fast print and quality at the same time. It also depends on the print head being used. Konica Minolta 1024i is for speed but less quality. Ricoh Gen 5 is for speed and quality. It doesn't matter the speed and print directions being used, color profile will still be the same on my machine.

That's not the point I was making. On the same machine you can definitely have issues getting matching colors when you run from the fastest mode to the slowest mode. Fine art quality and draft quality on an Oce or Fuji will definitely yield different densities of ink which will wash out your colors on the faster modes. Those machines have major curing banding at draft speeds either way.

 

[JessicaS]

Agreed on the FB550. We picked up a used one two years ago and it's been great for us. Hybrid is definitely the way to go, we have a flatbed Oce Arizona as well but it's just not as quick as the HP.

Hi Nick, I'm looking into the OCE Arizona for printing gauge faces (speedometers, tachometers). Can you tell me if it can print opaque white and opaque black? And how fast could it print, say, 30 speedometer faces?

 

[jay etheredge]

Not sure why a hybred is the way to go? The most accurate flatbed printing is on a true flatbed clearly. Also, Hybreds don't have great suction, and the "belt" wears and gets ink on it which is hard to remove. A hybred has its advantages but for flat bed printing.... no

 

[jay etheredge]

Hi Nick, I'm looking into the OCE Arizona for printing gauge faces (speedometers, tachometers). Can you tell me if it can print opaque white and opaque black? And how fast could it print, say, 30 speedometer faces?

A flora flatbed printer can print white amazingly and fairly fast. Maybe you should ask someone to give you some samples, and or print for you. I have a customer that prints VIP gifts for Space X on acrylic. they are displays for VIPs that fund Space X. He prints on dark acrylic and mounts pieces of titanium landing gear from the space X rockets. Pretty tight tolerances. That said, white is always going to be slower than without. Anyone that says different, is lying.

 

[jay etheredge]

Stratojet sells below or at $100k with the same speed as your flora. Stratojet new 4'x8' at $65k, also offers CMYK times 3 (3 rows) on a 6'x10'. Much better quality as it uses gen 5 which is 7 pl, compared to Konica 1024 which is at 14pl. The price is an MSRP since Stratojet is a manufacturing company and not a distributor or a third party.

Your Killing me with this humor. I would love to see a 3 row Gen 5 printer print a 4 x 8 in 90 seconds. Impossible.

That said, I think you are confused my friend. There's a big difference from a 1024 konica 14pl and the Printers I'm referring to which are 1024 "Konica i" 6pl printheads. Just in case you can't do math, 6pl is smaller than 7pl. To be fair, Ricoh Gen 5 printheads have pretty good quality, but they are much more temperamental than the Konica i printheads, and much slower. If you claim a 3 row Ricoh is faster, your lying or you just don't know what your talking about.

 

[Troy Lesher]

I cant answer your questions but consider looking at globalgarage for a used printer that will get you the speed you are looking for at a better price. You may be able to find a low hour "$200k machine" at a reasonable price. Ive seen a lot of low hour units on there and would assume people are upgrading in a good economy with cheap dollars.

We're currently screen printing our corrugated election signs which are mainly two colors. I'm looking for a flatbed printer so I can off load the smaller runs to the flatbed. I'm concerned about PMS matching for colors like reflex blue, purples, yellows etc. The other concern is the speed of the flatbed and what level off print speed I can get away with without causing banding. Most of the entry level flatbeds are doing about seven 4 x 8's and hour. It's too slow but I also don't want to spend 200k. We'll also be putting our 4 color work on the machine that I'm currently brokering out. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

If you havent done anything, check this out......https://www.dropbox.com/s/luj4dcgpbht4if1/Trufire 3 pass Default.MP4?dl=0