Best practice for cut vinyl ACM sign

[gnubler]

This may be a matter of opinion or style, but would like to hear how you would make this sign.
96x48" ACM panel, cast vinyl
Design is a solid color background with black lettering
Installed on a building exterior, south facing

a) Wrap the panel with the background color, apply cut vinyl lettering on top
b) Plot the letters out of the background color and use black ACM so the colors of the letters are the substrate showing through
c) Neither. Print and laminate a 96x48" vinyl graphic.

Any of these options will work, but are there pluses/minuses to any of them? I see so many weathered signs where the vinyl letters are curling/peeling away. Can this be avoided if the letters are voided out instead?

 

[ikarasu]

A is the longest lasting if you're in a Sunny area... C is the easiest, most cost effective. Never done B... Not sure I ever would, but I guess technically it works.

Diecutting letters and wrapping the panel uses almost double the material, depending on design - So it costs quite a bit more than printing and laminating... But printing and laminating is easy, and if you're using a cast vinyl it should last 10+ years outdoors anyways...so I'd go with option C, unless you want it to last more than 10 years

 

[Terry01]

What is the background color? Is it a standard color? If it's a custom back ground, just print ,laminate and wrap.

 

[visual800]

I would choose C according to your options. However painting the background with black latex and applying cast vinyl over it would be best option IMO....NEVER NEVER use black acm, the coating on ACM are absolute crap and do not last outside

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Don't use stock black ACM. The paint is terrible. Id print it and tell them 5 years. You could print background black and cut vinyl over it... The prints fail by turning black and bleeding into the lighter areas... If the print is already black and it's not going to bleed into the letters, I guess that's a better way.

 

[White Haus]

We would print on GF 201 HTAP + 3M 8418G laminate and call it a day.

Like Tex said, I wouldn't trust any of the painted/colored ACM sheets. Years ago we did some signs for a nail salon (first and last time) and they wanted to use yellow ACM. Those signs are now pretty much white and the rate that the yellow faded was insane.

 

[gnubler]

I would choose C according to your options. However painting the background with black latex and applying cast vinyl over it would be best option IMO....NEVER NEVER use black acm, the coating on ACM are absolute crap and do not last outside

I didn't know this about black ACM! But aren't the white panels painted also? Why would the black be crappier than white?
I recently ordered several sheets, both black and white. To my surprise, the "black" sheets, were black on one side, white on the other. It was an issue.

Interesting feedback from everyone, thanks.

 

[Boudica]

To my surprise, the "black" sheets, were black on one side, white on the other. It was an issue.

Interesting feedback from everyone, thanks.

That would be W/B/B... we have ultraboard like that. The white side is for printing, when it's finished, it has a black core, and black back, typically when we do this, the artwork is mostly black too. Either a black logo on white, or a black background. Looks sharp.

 

[Gino]

Never had any problems interior or exterior using painted acm, but for me, I'd get the white and lay a laminated print on the entire panel. When acm is painted, I always thought the finish was a baked on enamal finish, but either way, all vinyl will stick better to white, as it holds the least amount of heat when baking in the sun. Come winter, things relax and sometimes introduces peeling.

 

[gnubler]

Never had any problems interior or exterior using painted acm, but for me, I'd get the white and lay a laminated print on the entire panel. When acm is painted, I always thought the finish was a baked on enamal finish, but either way, all vinyl will stick better to white, as it holds the least amount of heat when baking in the sun. Come winter, things relax and sometimes introduces peeling.

Good to know. I'm doing another job of several signs using black ACM, with only one word of text in white. Very simple design, I was planning to use black ACM and cast white vinyl lettering but now this thread freaked me out.

Whether solid coverage of black is the ACM itself or wrapped in black vinyl, it's still going to absorb heat and bake in the sun. Yes/no?

 

[DL Signs]

I'd go with C, quick, easy, collect, and go have lunch.

Colored ACM, you'll get different results with different manufacturers, some is pretty cheap and will either fade sooner, or dark colors that get hotter in the sun will try to warp it. Stick with good stuff, and there's usually no issues. Heck they use it to clad buildings, soffits, etc, it's one thing you don't want to use the cheapest stuff if it's exposed, it's not all created equal.

Don't know what vinyl you're using, but I often use IJ175 for full print exterior ACM that we want to last. It's a 10 year cast air release, cheaper than some polymeric vinyls, won't shrink, and once you post heat it, it's never coming off... Even if you want it to. So it does temp changes well. Use it on trail maps for the county that are out on the banks of rivers in the elements, never fails.

 

[JBurton]

I did a black panel with white copy recently. Great I thought, order black, slap white on it. Unfortunately, the sign was 6'x24', and the salesman sold 2 6x12 sheets for it. Ended up cutting 4' black with void cut lettering, 3 sheets per panel. It worked fine, with 2 people wrangling them into place. Agreed on the painted black, I guess it just absorbs so much more UV when compared to white, but most folks buying acm could care less about longevity, if their panel starts to look like trash and their business is doing well, they'll usually upgrade to a lit sign. If it's not doing well...

Don't know what vinyl you're using, but I often use IJ175 for full print exterior ACM that we want to last

That's a touch pricey, I'm a fan of ij35c, with overage to wrap a 1" perimeter. None of mine have ever 'lifted' for obvious reasons, but if I ever have a 2 sided sign or something that prohibits wrapping, I'll go for SLX cause we stock it.

 

[Gino]

Good to know. I'm doing another job of several signs using black ACM, with only one word of text in white. Very simple design, I was planning to use black ACM and cast white vinyl lettering but now this thread freaked me out.

Whether solid coverage of black is the ACM itself or wrapped in black vinyl, it's still going to absorb heat and bake in the sun. Yes/no?

For your second application, I'd use black substrate with the cast white die-cut vinyl.

Not sure of your question, but if the base is black, it will heat up and get very hot and remain hot for a long time, while black vinyl or digital black will heat up, but not retain the heat near as much.

 

[Humble PM]

Not wanting to question you, but the radiant energy will be retained in the substrate whether it, or a coated material is absorbing the heat. Genuine DiBond in black is a pretty good powder coated substrate.

 

[JBurton]

Not sure of your question, but if the base is black, it will heat up and get very hot and remain hot for a long time, while black vinyl or digital black will heat up, but not retain the heat near as much.

Next you're going to tell me a painted black car is hotter than a cast black wrapped car...

 

[Gino]

Next you're going to tell me a painted black car is hotter than a cast black wrapped car...

That's like asking which is heavier ?? A 14 pound bag of feathers or a 14 pound bowling ball.


Was it a white car to begin with before being wrapped or some other color ??

 

[Signarama Jockey]

I say C.

Straightforward and fewer points of failure.

 

[unclebun]

I've never had trouble with black ACM. Seems to be just fine to me. Maybe it's brand dependent?

 

[DL Signs]

I've never had trouble with black ACM. Seems to be just fine to me. Maybe it's brand dependent?

Yup. just like anything else.

 

[Precision]

Print on Ij35, Lam with 8518. Will last for years.