bidding on Damn HUD job!

[visual800]

Work in this town is relatively dead. I get an email froma longtime client for bidding their HUD apt homes. Save the pdf and go thru it. Have to email the architect and ask him where "this" is and "that" is cause obviously I am to ignorant to find this in the table of contents.

They have a special page dedicated to specific vendors for certain signage. I don't pay attention to this since the signage they want has been outdated by 20 years or more. OK we are ready to bid now!

Have to email the architect once more and get the name of the apt complex along with sign sizes and to figure out the sign package. He responds with...."just figure it out on 12 characters and then a "per price" estimate for more letters"

He still did not offer a size. I deleted the document from my computer, Ill be damned if I am going to waste my time half a$$ bidding something I cant even get answers to, from the damn architect. It's almost like he didnt even want me to bid on it. I have to wonder what the h@ll the damn contractors on this job are going thru, lol

How are you guys handling these damn HUD plans? Never dealt with one before, seems to be a pain the a$$

 

[Pat Whatley]

Pain in the ***, takes forever to get a bid together, then the job gets given to the contractors brother in law who offers a "finders fee" kickback on the job.

 

[CanuckSigns]

I'm not sure what HUD is, but you just described our experience with most architects in general. We routinely get 700-800 page bid documents and told, give them a price by the end of the week, the signs are such a tiny part of the overall project that they don't make it into the table of contents, and the architect can't be bothered answering basic questions.

most of the specs are copy/pasted from the last bid document, because heaven forbid they try something other than 12" times new roman cast aluminum letters on the side of the building.

we've pretty much stopped bidding on these as well, it was always the same 3 companies bidding, and the other 2 did a great job of driving down the local price for this type of work, they are pretty much always within $200 of each other's total bids, last one we lost by $12,000 and we thought we were being pretty lean on the numbers, the other 2 were less than $35 apart!

 

[SebastienL]

Yup, "architects", "designers"; All the same to me.
"Look, I can draw pretty pictures, but I'll be damned if I take responsibility for anything"

 

[GAC05]

Could be they already know who is going to get the job and are just calling around to get the required number of bids - with the unwanted contractors pushed to fill in the " I do not want to submit a bid at this time" checkbox.

On the other hand we offer a service - customers don't really want a sign or banner or whatnot - they want a problem solved. If we can solve their problems and make good money at it - we win.
Had a customer come in with a Transit Connect - he wanted a rack built to hold his trays of baked goods for delivery, couldn't find anyone that wanted to mess with it.
We don't build bakery racks - but we do try to solve problems.
I measured it all out (using my sign guy tape measure skills). Drew out the plans to build it. Took the shop drawings to a glass shop we partner with for sign frames glass displays & light boxes.
Customer got a rack made of aluminum box tubing & extrusions fitted with countersunk stainless hardware. Square, lightweight & sturdy.
Now he's coming back to wrap the Connect and then we'll do some work at his store - display graphics & more product racks for his walk in freezers......


wayne k
guam usa

 

[CES020]

Could be they already know who is going to get the job and are just calling around to get the required number of bids

+1 We occasionally bid on things like that and it's all done online. It's so predictable. They put the bid out late on Friday, like 6:30 PM after everyone goes home, but a super short time frame on the bids, etc. We bid them, then we get the notice that "The request for quote has been cancelled by the person that submitted it". Then we watch and the bid never goes back up, but when you ride by the site months later, you can see the work done.

It's like they get our quote and it was cheaper than their "golden source" so they cancel it and find a back door way to get them the work.

Tax dollars hard at work.

 

[J Hill Designs]

total PITA, but worth it if you get the bid. for unspecced stuff, I bid at a size/etc I feel works, change orders happen.

 

[TXFB.INS]

I'm not sure what HUD is, but you just described our experience with most architects in general. We routinely get 700-800 page bid documents and told, give them a price by the end of the week, the signs are such a tiny part of the overall project that they don't make it into the table of contents, and the architect can't be bothered answering basic questions.

most of the specs are copy/pasted from the last bid document, because heaven forbid they try something other than 12" times new roman cast aluminum letters on the side of the building.

we've pretty much stopped bidding on these as well, it was always the same 3 companies bidding, and the other 2 did a great job of driving down the local price for this type of work, they are pretty much always within $200 of each other's total bids, last one we lost by $12,000 and we thought we were being pretty lean on the numbers, the other 2 were less than $35 apart!

we just had one of these, except they gave us a few hours go through 110 pages, then didn't answer the RFI for the obvious flaws in the packet


usually those companies that are so close in cost owned by the same people, in our case they are owned by sisters (they work out of the same office suite) who are classified as minorities by the govt..... can you guess who gets the bids?

 

[Rick]

Rummaging through 3-400 pages is a huge pain sometimes.

About 90% of our work is apartments signage, and we get HUD funded apartments.
None of the plans we get have every sign required, just the standard code references.

We find the project plan, landscape plans, elevations, floor plans and those code
references and start counting. Then we use a similar apartment complex and use those
numbers to develop a bid...

Anything wrong in the architects package is written in the bid, and an added amount for
planning and design and allowances to change orders for signs not counted and that how
they are submitted. We also have items in case the plans need review by the State
Architect, or HUD. The plans most likely have already been reviewed, but occasionally
some rogue inspector will want to see sign plans prior to fabrication.

There is a lot of money in apartment signs... I know a lot of you build monuments and
post and panels, but that's small potatoes compared to the ADA and fire safety signs that
are usually required.

We have new build apartments that are in the 150-250k range, refurbs can get into
the 35-100k range depending on the required changes. We've been working on a project
right now where the fire safety signs alone are 75k... (I hate fire safety sign by the way)
so after you get a system going, it might be worth the effort.

 

[CanuckSigns]

we just had one of these, except they gave us a few hours go through 110 pages, then didn't answer the RFI for the obvious flaws in the packet


usually those companies that are so close in cost owned by the same people, in our case they are owned by sisters (they work out of the same office suite) who are classified as minorities by the govt..... can you guess who gets the bids?

these companies aren't owned by the same people I don't believe. However the job i was referring to earlier was to supply & install 200 various parking signs around a new school, these are reflective 0.062" thick aluminum signs (stop, no parking, one way etc.) and a 12' galv. U-Chanel post, installed 3 feet in the ground, about 50 of them were in concrete, so that had to be core drilled before we could install, and then filled back in with concrete after.

the 2 other companies quoted $9,000 to do the job, that's $45 per sign, that is only a few bucks above our cost to buy the raw materials! not to mention the 1.5 weeks of labour to install them