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Black straight line banding with all nozzles firing and wave on

Discussion in 'Mutoh' started by LenXIII, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. LenXIII

    LenXIII Member

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    I can post pictures later but basically I was wondering if one of you guru's had an opinion on the first things to check. I have owned and self maintained this printer for about 4 years now and have never had to replace a part other than regular maintenance stuff (with the exception of the steel head belt breaking once!)

    Anyway - Doing a nozzle check on the original head which has printed tens of thousands of square feet shows that all nozzles are firing well. When printing on Matte PSA everything seems fine too. When I print on gloss vinyls the issue becomes noticeable. The black ink seems to print liney in straight horizontal lines almost as if nozzles were out - but they aren't. It's fairly inconsistent and very thin lines close together. I know you really need a picture so I will post one later, but I have never had an issue like this.

    Could it be head related even though all nozzles are firing? I think the reason you notice it on gloss and not matte is because gloss simple shows defects easier - I'm sure upon close inspection during print the issue is there on Matte vinyls as well.

    Printer history:
    OEM inks until about 6 months ago when getting OEM inks became an online only thing around here. (I also purchased two new printers so I was able to justify going non OEM)
    I switched back to OEM for a a good month or two along with a thorough cleaning and it didn't fix this black issue.
    Printer is about 5 years old.
    Print has just about all original parts.
    Printer is due for new dampeners and such, so if that could cause the issue it might be the problem.
    Original cleaning station.

    Believe me I am 100% pro OEM, so please don't start the non OEM ink battles. If you honestly think that is the problem then you can say so, but I don't need any other unrelated comments about it. I HATE non OEM ink but it is the best bet for my situation on this printer.

    Thanks in advance. I apologize if I have left out any required info, just ask and I will reply asap! I will try to get pics on here within a couple hours but don't wait on them if you have an opinion on the mean time.
     
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  2. J Hill Designs

    J Hill Designs Major Contributor

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    I would start with new dampers -probably a good idea anyway - could be miniscule supply issues that dont show in the nozzle test, since the head is always 'fresh' with ink when nozzle test is performed
     
  3. LenXIII

    LenXIII Member

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    Here is a more detailed picture of this problem that I am still having. Has anyone had this type of banding issue? A buddy of mine has a Epson gs6000 which is almost the same machine and he has brand new dampers and he is having the same issue with his black.

    This pic is a picture of the start of a print. The file is pretty low res in general, but you get the idea. As you can see the ligher beige area has no banding...just the brown. I only get this issue in dark colors as I think it originates from the black.

    12.jpg
     
  4. guitarguy69

    guitarguy69 Member

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    Looks like deflected nozzles to me. I had that happen on third party ink that was bad and lost four printers due to the deflection in blue. Try a maintenance mode nozzle check and it will show you better if there is in fact any deflected nozzles. If you need help on this, let me know. Aslo, what is your formula for black, as in how much individual ammounts of the four colors are in it, what is the CMYK of your black?
     
  5. LenXIII

    LenXIII Member

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    My standard test print/nozzle check looks perfect (except 1 black nozzle that has been out since day1) - I will run more detailed nozzle checks though. Just out of curiousity though if this was a deflected nozzle issue wouldn't it still be a little more of a sporadic banding? I mean printing in a wave format if these nozzles were deflecting the wrong way what is the chances of it making exactly horizontal lines? I would think I would get more of a wavy band or at least not perfectly straight...My logic might be flawed so explain it to me otherwise :) Any help is much appreciated, thanks for your time!

    Edit: Could someone PM me how to get this in to maintenance mode again? I forget the exact key combination.
     
  6. guitarguy69

    guitarguy69 Member

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    It does print in a wave pattern, but ultimately the head does not move in a wave. Rather the nozzles fire in a wave pattern and the specific nozzle will still be in charge of making that certain spot of the wave printed on at that specific line straight acrossed the printer on the left to right axis. The maintenance mode nozzle check will show you exactly where the nozzle(s) is (are) missdirected, deflected or missing.

    Your picture looks exactly like our prints on the machines that were affected by nozzle deflection due to contaminated ink.
     
  7. LenXIII

    LenXIII Member

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    Thanks for the reply guitarguy. This machine has had the problem now for at least 6 months so it feels more permanent at the moment. It might have been caused by contaminated ink though.. Do you mind sending me a whisper on how to access the maintenance mode? I'm pretty sure you aren't allowed to post it or I would have found it in a search by now :/
     
  8. guitarguy69

    guitarguy69 Member

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    Power down, hold the right, up and down arrows until it initializes. Go to check 4, enter. adj. 1:Nozzle Check, enter.
    Should get something like this picture with all 4 colors. It really shows the condition of the print head.

    I enhanced the color so you could see the test better.

    photo.JPG
     
  9. LenXIII

    LenXIII Member

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    Here is a picture of that test done on my black and my magenta. The magenta looks a lot smoother than the black. If this IS deflected nozzles would a good head cleaning with cleaning cartridges fix the problem?

    test12.jpg
     
  10. guitarguy69

    guitarguy69 Member

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    You sir have deflected nozzles. I have had little to no success with the cleaning solution flush, but I would sure love to hear a success story. If you do try the cleaning flush, please post your outcome here.
    Chances are a new print head and dampers are in order. :banghead:
     
  11. LenXIII

    LenXIII Member

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    Any idea what causes the deflected nozzles? (not what caused them but what physical causes them) As in is it some type of dried ink in the head causing it or is it something more mechanically wrong? If it is just dried ink or something there's got to be a way to get it clean again...right? I'm just being wishful here but maybe sending it off to one of the companies to give it a good clean might work if it's just a clogging issue.

    Otherwise...Any suggestions on a good place for a new head? :( I really didn't want to spend that on this old machine but the fact is $1600 is never going to get me something that prints better.
     
  12. guitarguy69

    guitarguy69 Member

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    Deflections can be caused by a clog, and or a clog that has made it through thus enlarging the port it comes out of. Kind of like when a dog gets ahold of a screen door, enlongated or enlarged holes in the screen. My guess is that the port has a partial clog. Like when your faucet gets that weird not neat little flow of water, but goes all wonky instead. Bad screen or stuff in the filter. If anyone has a company that they have had success reviving a clogged print head, i'd sure love the contact info for them.
     
  13. Samurai_Screwdriver

    Samurai_Screwdriver Member

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    May 18, 2009
    I agree - Definitely deflected nozzles. Likely this was caused by sub-par ink; there may be particulates partially clogging the nozzles or something wrong in the ink chemistry may have started to eat away at the edges of the nozzle orifices. It appears that this problem occurred while you had the non-OEM inks in there but the OEMs aren't immune from these problems either. That said, double check that your Head Height is not excessively high - The large the gap between the head and the media the more pronounced problems like this will be.

    If you try cleaning the Head the safest and most effective method will be to "back-flush" the head. Place the nozzle-plate in cleaning solution and suck it up through the Head and into a syringe. This way you're more likely to pull the particulates up out of the nozzles rather than jamming them down into an increasingly tight space.

    If the nozzles are damaged or worn you'll need a new Head. Not sure what Mutoh model you have but we can likely over you a good price on a replacement Head.

    good luck.
     
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