Bubbling vinyl?

[Bengt Backhaus]

The backstory is:
A client had a box truck done somewhere else.
Everything was fine for two weeks, then bubbles started to appear.
And meantime that company has gone bust...

Now they want me to redo it, so i went there and looked at it.
And i have never seen anything like it!
And i have done a bunch of boxes like this over the last 25 years.

The question:
Does anyone know what could have happened?
I don't want to do it and then it happens again because of something i didn't think of.

 

[rydods]

It is a fully saturated black print this may be an outgassing issue. Another thought is, did the company paint the vehicle box prior to application? The paint may have not fully cured. One last thought is maybe the installers didn't squeegee the material on properly and left pockets of air that became tighter bubbles over time as the material bonded to the vehicle.
Just a few thoughts...

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

It is a fully saturated black print this may be an outgassing issue. Another thought is, did the company paint the vehicle box prior to application? The paint may have not fully cured. One last thought is maybe the installers didn't squeegee the material on properly and left pockets of air that became tighter bubbles over time as the material bonded to the vehicle.
Just a few thoughts...

I forgot to mention that it's all made in cut vinyl. The black aswell.

It's the wet paint theory i'm most afraid of.
That would making removal of the old vinyl to a nightmare.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

Pop them

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

Pop them

I tried with a couple of them, but with the bigger ones theres was no way to get them to lay down flat.
The vinyl is too stretched out and doesn't go back.
Maybe with a heatgun, but there are just too many of them to be time efficient.

 

[weyandsign]

The truck has a bumpy texture. It might be fiberglass or something. And the black color absorbs all the heat. Will need to peel and clean it really good. Go with printed and laminated vinyl instead of cut vinyl.

 

[SightLine]

Looks like the fiberglass body is outgassing which would mean its probably been poorly repaired and/or repainted and the fiberglass is no longer fully sealed.

 

[JBurton]

Paint or fiberglass gelcoat is outgassing, you'd better get it off quick before it does more damage. If it needs to be repainted, I'd recommend black, it'll save a lot on time and materials for relettering...

 

[BlueRoseAuto]

Id be careful removing it. and make sure to have them understand you have no liability to paint damage. i think this is fresh paint off gassing , i had something that looked very close to this. It wasnt cut vinyl but it was mpi 1105 on a fender that was painted 3 days prior. it looked great when we were done. 5 days later there were probably 200 smaller bubbles. when i asked the client they said it was just repaired and painted.

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

I've seen the effects of outgassing before, but never like this.
But it could very well be the answer.

I took for granted that they bought it new, but i'll ask the customer about it, and if they know of any repairs or repainting.

It looks like that on all sides.

 

[Gino]

I tried with a couple of them, but with the bigger ones theres was no way to get them to lay down flat.
The vinyl is too stretched out and doesn't go back.
Maybe with a heatgun, but there are just too many of them to be time efficient.

Did anything at all come out while popping them ?? Looks like someone didn't get all the wetness out while squeegeeing.

Also, do you think it would be more money saving to remove everything and start over..... than to hire someone to just be popping them for a day ??

 

[JBurton]

Also, do you think it would be more money saving to remove everything and start over..... than to hire someone to just be popping them for a day ??

Just guessing, but I don't make the best money by fixing other shop's f*ck ups, though it is great for customer relationship building...

 

[Gino]

Just guessing, but I don't make the best money by fixing other shop's f*ck ups, though it is great for customer relationship building...

Depends on how you price it............. but generally, me neither. I'd give them 3 choices.

1. Have us remove it all, reprint/cut and apply all new.
2. Pay us to pop all the bubbles and flatten out to the best of our ability.
3. Get a case or two of beer and take a weekend and pop them yourselves.

I've always said, we can take your project from any point. Total design, fabrication and installation to just a portion of it and NOW..... we can repair other people's problems at a cost with no refunds once we start.

 

[Texas_Signmaker]

I noticed outgassing as millions of tiny little bubbles all over the place...not bugs ones like that

 

[DL Signs]

Could be just a bad wet install like Gino said. Or, take it a step further, if that black is an air release vinyl, and someone tried to install wet. Fluid works through the channels, pools where it ends up, gets crazy hot in the sun under the black, water turns to vapor, and makes big bubbles. Makes sense to me anyway.

 

[JBurton]

if that black is an air release vinyl, and someone tried to install wet.

As someone who has made this mistake, I don't think they would have got the second panel hung before the first hit the floor, but that was a one time deal with arlon 6000xrp. Newer/different materials may allow the sheet to stay in place until it looks like this.

I noticed outgassing as millions of tiny little bubbles all over the place...not bugs ones like that

I've seen an all black polycarbonate face start with smaller bubble more spread out, which coalesced into large 2"-4" bubbles over time. God do I hate it when crappy signs get put up down the street from me.

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

Did anything at all come out while popping them ?? Looks like someone didn't get all the wetness out while squeegeeing.

Also, do you think it would be more money saving to remove everything and start over..... than to hire someone to just be popping them for a day ??

Only air came out.

I worded that badly. I blame it on not beeing used to think and write in english.
They bubbles won't come out with a good result because it has expanded to the point that there's to much vinyl to press it back whitout wrinkling.
So instead of me trying to pop and heat somewhere around a hundred bubbles, they can use cheaper labourer remove it.
Then I can redo it, and my time would be used better.

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

if that black is an air release vinyl

I cut of a small piece in an good area and it's not air release.
It felt stiff, like cheap calendered (spelling?) vinyl.

 

[Bengt Backhaus]

though it is great for customer relationship building...

That is kinda the case here.
They just started to let me do their signs and vehicles.
It would be good if I could fix this and bad if I said i could and then failed.

 

[JBurton]

It would be good if I could fix this and bad if I said i could and then failed.

Sounds like the perfect opener to your proposal.
While Backhaus has years of experience and skill, we will strive for this repair, but cannot warranty anything that doesn't either originate in our shop or a select few partner's shops.
I also like to pose the best and worst case scenario. 1k for repairs, further failure arises, 1k for removal, 3k for replacements = 5k vs 3.5k for a discounted removal and replacement. Don't forget the added detriment of driving around, trying to advertise new slick solar panels, in a van that looks like a pockmarked teens face.