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Businessing is Hard

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Starting to learn that running a print shop that does more printer repair, refurb, and engineering is a tricky prospect. Set up shop mostly to do prints for the local weed industry and am learning just how flaky that can be. Some pretty good clients left who did the smart thing and avoided overexpansion, but the inevitable price contractions have occurred, and folks are doing everything they can to cut costs. We've expanded into more exotic stuff like doing countertop displays, large flatbed prints, printing straight to devices and such to diversify but haven't had great luck.

In addition to printing, we've been working on other shops machines, mostly Mimaki, some Epson, and I even work on most Chinese if the price is right. It's let me talk to a lot of shops to get an idea of how the industry goes as a whole. Some folks really feeling the pinch, others seem pretty stable and a few even expanding. So, at least as a whole, no real signs of massive instability in the local markets. We also sometimes partner with those shops and take on some of their odd jobs when there's a need or even fill in some work if a machine is down. Additionally, we've also helped shops acquire and rebuild used equipment to help expand on the cheap. Since getting a tech in Oklahoma can take weeks to months, getting same-day or next-day service has been mind-blowing for these people.

Now for the more schizophrenic stuff we do, but it's technically all in the same vein. With the massive glut of Chinese printers coming out in the past 5 years, we've done lots of reverse engineering and learning the systems they use. It's shockingly simple and cheap to basically assemble printers from scratch or find crazy specialized printers from Chinese firms. Not having to screw with idiotic ink DRM/chips and using use of lots of common parts actually make these machines amazingly easy for me to work on. The documentation and software tend to be incredibly awful when it comes to English or any language other than Chinese, however. Had some good luck just writing in-house documentation and working with some of the vendors to help make their stuff more readable for us English speakers. That said, the consensus seems to be with some shops, if it's 1/3 the price, faster and I'm willing to support it, they will buy. We've even been looking into bolting together and setting up custom production line printers for customers. Stuff like conveyor UV printers, box printers and stuff like that, all decently easy to execute.

Lastly, we've started stocking inks for some of the local shops. OKC has GSG and Grimco, as well as Reece Supply up in Tulsa. All of which seem to be somewhat lacking on their offerings. Since I work with a lot of Mimaki UV stuff, we are starting to keep more and more of that on hand. Sales of ink are probably our only real consistent success, and it's pretty easy too. That said, it's been a slow build up to going from special ordering for people to keeping stock on hand.

As a 2 full-timer and 2 part-timer person shop, we're all a bunch of engineering nerds and totally suck at the sales, marketing and all that. Pondering just shutting down and selling things off. Not in crazy bad debt or anything, but also not in a position to hire on people who can do that kind of stuff. Half the job these days seems to be chasing down people for money owed instead of doing anything fun or productive. I've had some job offers through some printer vendors and can just walk with my skills, but I am more of the type who just likes to share what I learn rather than bulk up a company's patent portfolio. I really like the industry, but don't know if anyone has any idea how or if to proceed.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
Hate to hear this. I'd reckoned with all the time you were able to pour into reverse engineering printers, you had a stupid simple print shop rolling away in the background. I can certainly appreciate the situation of digging into things in the down time, but sales are king.
At any rate, are you marketing to locals, or do you even want to? Or lean into the pot heads that much more. You'd probably do well to get some nice samples put together, include pricing (figure selling price for an obscenely large quantity, list as 'as low as', then push that out to all the growers or distribution centers you can come up with, and hopefully carve the weed niche you've got going into a more stable model. (Further, if you're stuck chasing bills under a certain amount, say $500, make all purchases at that price or below due at delivery.)
Or, see about moving over into a print service shop type model. If you're going to run other company's work when their equipment is down, you need to be 'on retainer', that can include the first hour of an on site visit once a month or quarter. Lean further into your hacked printers, draw up a walkthrough on retrofitting the cheapest used printer you can, or sell some ink chip disablers.
 

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Hate to hear this. I'd reckoned with all the time you were able to pour into reverse engineering printers, you had a stupid simple print shop rolling away in the background. I can certainly appreciate the situation of digging into things in the down time, but sales are king.
At any rate, are you marketing to locals, or do you even want to? Or lean into the pot heads that much more. You'd probably do well to get some nice samples put together, include pricing (figure selling price for an obscenely large quantity, list as 'as low as', then push that out to all the growers or distribution centers you can come up with, and hopefully carve the weed niche you've got going into a more stable model. (Further, if you're stuck chasing bills under a certain amount, say $500, make all purchases at that price or below due at delivery.)
Or, see about moving over into a print service shop type model. If you're going to run other company's work when their equipment is down, you need to be 'on retainer', that can include the first hour of an on site visit once a month or quarter. Lean further into your hacked printers, draw up a walkthrough on retrofitting the cheapest used printer you can, or sell some ink chip disablers.
Nah, having no social life and being a crazy autistic bastard means I spend a lot of time reverse engineering stuff in general as I find it to be quite entertaining. The BOM on midsize printers from flatbeds to roll printers is getting stupid cheap, so I am just going along with that for now. Just releasing designs, code and stuff like that as I go. I figure it's only a matter of time until inkjet printers reach the nerdy open-source level as their 3D printer counterparts. More and more people want to do printing in house, and that might just make it viable. Seems price point on a machine is secondary to the support it gets. Lots of shops have decently technical people, who, if provided the right documentation could fix most issues with ease. For shops wanting support, could be a nice market to be had there. For the moment, getting some bills paid doing service calls, converting people to bulk systems and getting Paypal tips from folks I help on the phone or over email when I have spare time.
 

netsol

Premium Subscriber
Starting to learn that running a print shop that does more printer repair, refurb, and engineering is a tricky prospect. Set up shop mostly to do prints for the local weed industry and am learning just how flaky that can be. Some pretty good clients left who did the smart thing and avoided overexpansion, but the inevitable price contractions have occurred, and folks are doing everything they can to cut costs. We've expanded into more exotic stuff like doing countertop displays, large flatbed prints, printing straight to devices and such to diversify but haven't had great luck.

In addition to printing, we've been working on other shops machines, mostly Mimaki, some Epson, and I even work on most Chinese if the price is right. It's let me talk to a lot of shops to get an idea of how the industry goes as a whole. Some folks really feeling the pinch, others seem pretty stable and a few even expanding. So, at least as a whole, no real signs of massive instability in the local markets. We also sometimes partner with those shops and take on some of their odd jobs when there's a need or even fill in some work if a machine is down. Additionally, we've also helped shops acquire and rebuild used equipment to help expand on the cheap. Since getting a tech in Oklahoma can take weeks to months, getting same-day or next-day service has been mind-blowing for these people.

Now for the more schizophrenic stuff we do, but it's technically all in the same vein. With the massive glut of Chinese printers coming out in the past 5 years, we've done lots of reverse engineering and learning the systems they use. It's shockingly simple and cheap to basically assemble printers from scratch or find crazy specialized printers from Chinese firms. Not having to screw with idiotic ink DRM/chips and using use of lots of common parts actually make these machines amazingly easy for me to work on. The documentation and software tend to be incredibly awful when it comes to English or any language other than Chinese, however. Had some good luck just writing in-house documentation and working with some of the vendors to help make their stuff more readable for us English speakers. That said, the consensus seems to be with some shops, if it's 1/3 the price, faster and I'm willing to support it, they will buy. We've even been looking into bolting together and setting up custom production line printers for customers. Stuff like conveyor UV printers, box printers and stuff like that, all decently easy to execute.

Lastly, we've started stocking inks for some of the local shops. OKC has GSG and Grimco, as well as Reece Supply up in Tulsa. All of which seem to be somewhat lacking on their offerings. Since I work with a lot of Mimaki UV stuff, we are starting to keep more and more of that on hand. Sales of ink are probably our only real consistent success, and it's pretty easy too. That said, it's been a slow build up to going from special ordering for people to keeping stock on hand.

As a 2 full-timer and 2 part-timer person shop, we're all a bunch of engineering nerds and totally suck at the sales, marketing and all that. Pondering just shutting down and selling things off. Not in crazy bad debt or anything, but also not in a position to hire on people who can do that kind of stuff. Half the job these days seems to be chasing down people for money owed instead of doing anything fun or productive. I've had some job offers through some printer vendors and can just walk with my skills, but I am more of the type who just likes to share what I learn rather than bulk up a company's patent portfolio. I really like the industry, but don't know if anyone has any idea how or if to proceed.
that has been the issue for me, as well. time i should spend on marketing gets spent on the next engineering project.
but I ENJOY my stupid re-engineering projects, damn it! about 45 years ago, a friend who was an electronics wholesaler always told me that the best techs were THE WORST salesmen. At the moment, i don't try to sell, the wife has had some medical issues that tie up a lot of my time. just a trip to the shop every day to run cleaning cycles and print just enough to maintain printheads.
 

JBurton

Signtologist
Nah, having no social life and being a crazy autistic bastard means I spend a lot of time reverse engineering stuff in general as I find it to be quite entertaining.
Please don't take offense, I'm likely on the spectrum myself, but you've got to name your print service company something along the lines of Fool Spectrum Printer Repair.
but I ENJOY my stupid re-engineering projects, damn it!
This is how it should be, doing the things you love will keep you young.
 

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Nah, being an autistic mofo has its perks, and one of the partners at the shop is ADD, makes a great mix. Sometimes knowing what's weird about yourself helps you lean into things that might be a benefit. Guess the trick is just finding some kind of sweet spot or working with someone who knows how to sell folks on things.
 

mvariety

New Member
Nah, being an autistic mofo has its perks, and one of the partners at the shop is ADD, makes a great mix. Sometimes knowing what's weird about yourself helps you lean into things that might be a benefit. Guess the trick is just finding some kind of sweet spot or working with someone who knows how to sell folks on things.
Yes, get a sales/marketing person on your team. I don't like sales either and it takes a certain type of person to do it well. Pay them well, set goals, and reward them with commission, etc. I love being in the shop and learning more about equipment/software and new ways to do things and sales gives me the orders. "Right on it, boss!" They bring in the jobs, we all eat.

A fellow printer once told me, "I'll never wish a print shop on my worst enemy."
 

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Yes, get a sales/marketing person on your team. I don't like sales either and it takes a certain type of person to do it well. Pay them well, set goals, and reward them with commission, etc. I love being in the shop and learning more about equipment/software and new ways to do things and sales gives me the orders. "Right on it, boss!" They bring in the jobs, we all eat.

A fellow printer once told me, "I'll never wish a print shop on my worst enemy."
We've lucked out in having a decent price facility and relatively low costs, as well as rebuilding all the equipment we run. But yeah, I am thinking that is by far the greatest issue we have. Now, I just need to figure out what we should focus on selling, the prints, or the printers.
 

dreko

New Member
Well, if you can figure out a 'open source' type of inkjet printer, cobbled together from all these Chinese machines/parts... I think you might want to offer it for sale. Like a custom motorcycle builder, or a custom PC builder.
I'd be interested, especially if you can figure out a way so I can run low viscosity oil paint "inks" with a way to clean the lines/head/etc as this would be a solvent type of ink/paint
 

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Compatibility of inks is mostly dependent on the head itself. Thankfully the control boards I have been working with support more robust industrial heads such as the Ricoh Gen5/6 as well as a variety of Epson heads. Heads themselves are too expensive to manufacture, so will always be dependent on OEMs. As for the control boards, most are just fancy FPGA kits.
 

dreko

New Member
Yes, make a printer using the industrial heads or high resolution valvejets. Use commercial parts/control boards/motors/etc
Bundle it all up as a custom oil paint printer
 

Smoke_Jaguar

Man who touches printers inappropriately.
Gen5's are pretty good about jetting most crap you can feed them, doubly so if you use their heaters. That said, getting inks certified is a massive pain in the butt and not something I plan on doing. Plus, my chemical engineering background is scant at best.
 

dreko

New Member
I would make my own inks... I just need the 'system'
I'd make the inks/paints to put in a refillable system. Do all the cleaning, flushing...
I just need the hardware/software
 

netsol

Premium Subscriber
Gen5's are pretty good about jetting most crap you can feed them, doubly so if you use their heaters. That said, getting inks certified is a massive pain in the butt and not something I plan on doing. Plus, my chemical engineering background is scant at best.
yes, just fill out this simple 20,000 page initial application & then we can assign an EPA caseworker to your product and we can get down to the nitty gritty.
 
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