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buying a CET, or?

Discussion in 'Flatbed Printers' started by artbot, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    my trip to china went bust, and my jv3 is on the fritz during a rush order. so my buyer says "enough, i'm buying you a new flatbed, that's it!"

    i really like the CET. looks very user friendly, very fixable, very cleanly designed....

    my requirements: i print big bold gloppy images, lot's of texture, not a lot of resolution. i know that CET can put high picoliter heads in the white/clear spots. but of all the flatbeds, which printer lays down the thickest ink the fastest. i know that all uv printers can do texture. but i plan on doing texture on everything.

    maybe just requesting staggered white or clear on a CET carriage? what think the guys that run the big boy machines daily?

    thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
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  2. ThinkRight

    ThinkRight Active Member

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    http://www.us.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/grand_format_inkjet/gs2000
    http://www.us.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/grand_format_inkjet/gs3200
     
  3. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    better explanation of products/substrates:

    -printing on primed glass (estimated weight 100lb)
    -registered over printing (artistic washes, combined with digital, need perfect registering for up to five separate passes). many will be wrapped canvases and a vacuum
    belt will have difficulty holding these in place.
    -shadowed "toning" of 3d wall panels (head height over substrate 1", post cured)
    -.080 clear coated aluminum and digital dibond
    -.375 digitally coated acrylic, PETG, and PC

    i don't believe the vuteks will work for perfect overprinting of large substrates or pull the glass effectively.

    will almost never print on coro, sintra, foamcore, etc.
    no roll to roll requirments
     
  4. ForgeInc

    ForgeInc Active Member

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    Although pricey I have seen some prints off of dursts that might fit your bill. They lay down ink quickly and pretty thick.

    Another printer I'd take a look at are the oce and fuji versions. We got samples off them and they print beautifully. Being a true flatbed, registration won't be an issue at all I don't think. I think they have different ink formulations for different substrates as well. I know one formulation is geared more toward flexible media, the other is more for glass, plastics or other substrates needing better adhesion. Might be perfect for ya.

    We also got samples off the CET and man, that ink WAS thick!

    We've done a lot of research on flatbeds and settled on 2 FB700 presses but I don't think the belt drive is good for ya. I think either the CET or OCE/Fuji would fit the bill. As you probably know, A lot of folks speak very highly of CET.
     
  5. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    durst flatbed? i'll look.

    with the CET xpress, is it the PQ-512? i see that the spot channels are 35 picoliters instead of the 15. i wonder if the 85 picoliter head is also compatible? the viscosity maxes out at 14cP on the 15pico. that seems to be the max amongst all flatbeds. except for the xaar 1001 at 50cP or something. that would lay down some goop.

    the fuji was a beautiful machine at the sgia but maybe too beautiful. i like my equipment built for abuse. there won't be very many "friendly" substrates for whatever is the best choice.

    also, CET can custom build the carriage and ink train (other companies at the show said they do the same). but the layout of the CET looked very Franken-friendly.
     
  6. SightLine

    SightLine Very Active Member

    I think CET is a good fit for you as well. Durst makes awesome machines as well but you will pay for one.... from what I've read/heard/seen, CET is really open to ideas and I agree, they look like excellent frankenprinter candidates.

    Fantastic news for you too. Can hardly wait to see what you end up getting and modding.
     
  7. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    the family is not looking forward to my not being around. and possibly selling the country home and moving back to houston. ... eventually it may become complicated. but i need to be a part of something bigger. the art business can really kick a guy around.

    durst does have the "sol-gel" i'm sure i could put that to work. belt drive, designed for glass? getting the glass on and off a flatbed is a chore, maybe a strong belt would be the way to go.

    one thing, this is a very large art consulting company in quick expansion. the projects are interior. usually halls, hospital rooms, reception areas. these spaces are usually switched out decoratively every 15 years. major installs should last 50 (i doubt, i'd be printing a major install, probably cast or deep etch it, etc). what is the general rule for longevity of the UV cure inks indoors? i'm figuring beneath uv protected glass and acrylic, the ink would do well. what about unprotected? when i say "unprotected" i'd be putting an anti-microbial nano lacquer on just about everything.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  8. ForgeInc

    ForgeInc Active Member

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    Now that I think about it, I think the durst may not be good solution. They are belt driven, and I also remembered the thick white I saw had to be accomplished w/ 2 passes I think.

    I think for you it's definitely either oce/fuji or CET. If you are looking for beautiful prints, get an OCE. If you are looking for thick ink, get a CET. Honestly, I think either would be a workhorse. There is something to be said in the fact that oce/fujis are by the far the highest selling large format printer in the US. I think I remember our sales rep saying there are like 2000+ in existence?

    But, from everything I have seen about your work and how much you tinker with machines, the CET seems built very simply and would most likely be easiest one to modify.
     
  9. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    i'd still just rather have a cheap chinese flatbed printer in my garage vs a $100k flatbed over an hour away from my home and family. but then i'm not a super successful business man. maybe i should take the lead of guys that know how to make money instead of me that just knows how to make stuff.
     
  10. cwb143

    cwb143 Member

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    Problem with that is the money people don't want to share. So what happened with the Chinese? They not want American dollar?
    Also I get the feeling the CET 500Q is higher than $100,000 CET 500.
     
  11. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    my partner is very generous. but with what i do, there are a lot of meetings. constant. sample drop offs, and face to face discussions, etc. not to mention that this whole venture will probably cost around $600,000 to start up and more over the following months. i can't blame him for wanting to be able to drop by frequently.

    also, oddly, when i'm in houston, the pace is of course fast and rush rush. out in the country it's more laid back. most everything i do is rush. it seems easier to get into the rush when you are deep in a metropolitan area vs the peaceful back woods.

    if anyone has any personal experience comparing the two, i'd love to hear your wisdom on this. saving some miles and $15,000 on a lease each year isn't worth having a shop that shows up half asleep and looking forward to leaving early.
     
  12. ForgeInc

    ForgeInc Active Member

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    What does being in the woods or in the city have to do with what printer you purchase?
     
  13. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    absolutely nothing.
     
  14. ForgeInc

    ForgeInc Active Member

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    Oh, I guess I thought you were weighing having a chinese printer in your garage vs a 100k printer in a metro shop or something. No reason you couldn't have a 100k printer in your garage, eh?

    You do killer work man, you need to be in a place and using equipment that will allow you to do that, plain and simple. And...it sounds like you have others feeling the same, otherwise you wouldn't have an investor right?

    As far as the money thing - Don't weigh your next steps on that, it's overrated. If you need to stay small to be creative...do it. If you wanna move on to bigger and better and part of that means growing your business in step then go for it. Do what you like, and the "makin money" part will follow.
     
  15. artbot

    artbot Very Active Member

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    the investor is tired of me pre-downsizing. he expects to do 2mil the first year, then onto 4 and 6 and 10 million. that is what the business he owns does in much the same field as i am. i will be a contract manufacturer for that company.

    i think i am getting too old to "be creative" (44years). it's time to be thinking about big payoffs, retirement, etc. plus, i've been an independent artist for 32 years (since i was 12 years old). i am getting a bit bored with the solo thing. when i go to this guy's showroom, he has a bunch of employees and about 25k ft2 you can really feed off the energy. not the same in a small studio. so now i am hoping to do the best of both worlds. ...find a big/cheap building in the country. you can get a very developed property at 19k ft2 for around $3500per month. of course, i'm used to $0 a month so the whole thing weirds me out.

    as far a china vs american. with my work, the printer isn't the central machine. it's used then the pieces go onto other things. so i'd rather have a decent printer and four other machines. but it seems now it's time to just let this guy spend his money. he's smart. he knows how to do it right.
     
  16. ForgeInc

    ForgeInc Active Member

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    For what it's worth, you are about where I was 2 years ago. Was doin the solo thing for 15 years then started Forge. We're up to 17 employees now. As stressful as it is sometimes, I really enjoy all the new challenges that come with it, allows me to be creative in a new way in addition to the design work. I currently work way harder for less money, but I have more fun doing it and hope it'll pay off in the long run as we build something. If it doesn't i know I gave it my all.

    Go for it!
     
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