buying a new flatbed

[Gino]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but an FB700 is not a true flatbed. In fact, most of the equipment named here in this thread so far are not true flatbeds, except for the Oce'.

Therefore, most any substrate that doesn't remain truly flat will be an issue, so you might want to reconsider MDO and certain substrates that have a tendency to bow if your vacuum isn't strong enough.

 

[rjssigns]

Well... I said I had ideas, never said any of 'em were good. DOH!

I didn't realize they were only 50 squares an hour.

I tried calling my rep to find the exact make, but I think he recommends CET for flatbeds. Can let you know when he calls back.

 

[ForgeInc]

You're right, the Vutek and FB700 are hybrids. But the Oce and AGFAs are flatbeds. One of the reasons we like those 2 models in particular in that they'd compliment our existing equipment well. We do a lot of double sided and are thinking registration would be easier on a true flatbed?

 

[National Sign Co. - Print]

Just make sure the Agfa comes with plenty of Lube. Your gonna need it not the machine.

 

[WYLDGFI]

Take a look at FujiSericol as well. They have some nice machines and are a pleasure to deal with.

 

[Gino]

I just looked up the Jeti. Very nice. Seems a bit expensive at $400,000 and another $70,000 for roll to roll hook up and the cost of adding so many print heads to increase the speed. However, you know your needs better than anyone else.

I don't know about the greasy entryway, but I know ours with plenty of love and tender loving care is working like a real champ for the most part.

Just yesterday, we were printing a bunch of .040 3' x 4' double-sided signs and one of them must've heated up from the lamps a little too much, warped, hit the undercarriage and sent the aluminum flying and crunched the living daylights out of it and absolutely.... no harm done. The Dilli [again is really the original Agfa] is built like a tank.

 

[cdiesel]

Like I said before, get a Vutek. There are a million of them out there because they work. If you have to have a different printer than your competition to get clients you've got other issues. Get the printer that will do what you need it to do, not because nobody else has it.

There were GS2000's out there last year sub $200k. You could get two of them for the price of the Agfa..

 

[ForgeInc]

Mike - that Novus IS pretty "different" eh? I love the 3 year warranty (especially on new technology) and the fact the inks are more green with less VOCs than UV. I'll get bashed for it, but a lot of our customers here in the NW require us to be as green as possible, one of the reason we went with the large latext roll-to-roll. Dang hippies!

Just wish it was farther along and I could see sample prints, specs, etc...but April isn't that far out I guess!

Gino - How has service been for you? Are they local? Average response time, etc?

 

[Gino]

Mike - that Novus IS pretty "different" eh? I love the 3 year warranty (especially on new technology) and the fact the inks are more green with less VOCs than UV. I'll get bashed for it, but a lot of our customers here in the NW require us to be as green as possible, one of the reason we went with the large latext roll-to-roll. Dang hippies!

Just wish it was farther along and I could see sample prints, specs, etc...but April isn't that far out I guess!

Gino - How has service been for you? Are they local? Average response time, etc?

We got our machine in February of '10.

They came, set it up and we had it running by the end of the first day. By lunchtime the next day we were producing signs. He went home early.

He hasn't been back since. Well, once. He was doing some work locally in another shop and dropped in to say hi and look at his baby, again. We've had no need for a tech on site, but have made a few inquiries over the phone which other than one time when he was on vacation and another time he was in another shop doing an install, they take our calls immediately. Agfa themselves in less then 2 hours away from us. We've never really needed their help either.

In our shop, I'm blessed with a very good and creative right-arm man. He is so techie, it ain't funny. He has actually helped the techs out when they call us for information. He has done things with this machine, the rep asked how we did it and he just says read and common sense.

However, on some issues about adhesion or profiles, we took some shortcuts and like I said..... the people were most helpful.

I'm not pushing the Agfa, but I think you need to do like any smart business person and take files and lots of them to a dealer and have them demonstrate one for an entire day and make sure it does everything you want or expect it to do. Do this with the same files with all of the distributors and then make decisions. All of us have a certain amount of sentimental value connected with our machines and want to feel we've made excellent decisions, so we recommend them. What works for us or someone else on this site, might not be your cup a tea.

 

[ezposter]

Jetrix by Inktec

I have a Jetix 5 x 10 that prints great quality. They also have a new higher speed model. Solid build similar to more expensive European makes but better price -made in South Korea. I like that the same company makes the ink and printer. White ink and primer for difficult to print substrates. Distributed in USA by Oldham Group. They are very helpful with technical problems and questions.

 

[ThinkRight]

Vutek is pretty much out for us. Nearly every one of our competitors in town have one (I think there are like 10+ in our market) and we wanna differentiate ourselves from that.

I too, have been impressed with what I've read and seen sample wise from OCE. My only concern is cure banding. I did see some on the samples we were provided by them. Agfa I really know nothing about, and I think the model I mentioned is fairly new so hard to get feedback on it...the specs and print samples we saw were quite imprtessive.

If you want different .......
http://www.us.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/grand_format_inkjet/overview_family
http://www.us.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/grand_format_inkjet/overview_family,specs

 

[10sacer]

How many Jetrix printers have been sold in the US?

 

[10sacer]

If you are in Atlanta - drive down and see the CET models in action for what you would spend for a GS Vutek - you could get 2 CET printers - depends on your needs, though.

If you want different .......
http://www.us.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/grand_format_inkjet/overview_family
http://www.us.heidelberg.com/www/html/en/content/products/grand_format_inkjet/overview_family,specs

 

[ForgeInc]

Wanted to thank all you guys for the input. Funny how things come around, we actually just pulled the trigger on another FB 700. Crazy! After much discussion we decided that to step up to the OCE or Agfa right now may not be enough 1-2 years down the road, and like Mike said none of what we were looking at were actually production machines.

So, We took the advice of keeping something in line with out current workflow, not having to do profiles for another machine, etc. was a big plus for us. We've only been open for about 8 months so we are still getting our processes ironed out, to throw another new machine in the mix is just too much right now. We'll stay this course for a year or so and see what new technology comes out, how we grow etc. That said if anyone has questions on the FB feel free to ask...we're becoming pretty in tune with it.

Anyway thanks 101! Have learned so much on on here the last year or so!

 

[Jack Knight1979]

I live in the wrong part of the country. I've been in Maine for five years and it feels like a struggle to stay open sometimes. You guy have been open for less than a year and you're adding a 2nd flatbed?

That's depressing. hahah.

 

[SignManiac]

It really is quite an impressive accomplishment and I'm sure deservedly so. I would be willing to bet the company is not being run like most typical shops. I'm sure there is an aggressive, go get the contracts attitude with a good support staff, building and growing the company. That's what it takes these days.
Running on good strong, sound business principles. It takes a lot, and along with that, a lot of different skill sets that each employee brings to the company.

His market and location may also be an important factor in that kind of explosive growth. Could be any number of things but I for one am happy to that kind of success!

Or.....? Forge could be up to his eyeballs in massive debt ))) But I doubt that is it!

 

[10sacer]

We are going to ISA to look at a new cutter/router and either a second flatbed or a faster/larger one that can deliver same quality but higher speeds. Our sales were up 400% from 12/10 to 12/11. Its not about the machines, its about separating yourself from the competition in total services offered and delivering on what you say you can do. If a room full of magicians can all pull a rabbit out of a hat and you walk in and pluck a Playboy bunny out of the hat - who do you think the audience is gonna pay attention to?

I would agree with Mike about the saturation of Vuteks, though. Doesn't matter if there is one on every street corner. Its the company behind it that is producing the graphics and collaborating with the customer that makes the difference in that playing field and alot of that comes down to the operator.

I can show you a company right up the road that has the wrong people in place and they have ruined a QS3200 and a Kongsberg iXL24.

Ultimately, customers don't know and don't care what make, model, size, speed of the machine that produces prints - for the most part unless they have been burned by someone before and they know what machine it was. But a good operator can make a marginal machine print good and run well.

I don't understand why retail print producers list their equipment on their websites. The only people who know it matters are wholesale customers/brokers who follow the industry and know the different models and what they can do. I have never had a retail customer ask me what machine I use. They see the quality of the prints and know they haven't seen anything close to it near here.

 

[ForgeInc]

I live in the wrong part of the country. I've been in Maine for five years and it feels like a struggle to stay open sometimes. You guy have been open for less than a year and you're adding a 2nd flatbed?

That's depressing. hahah.

Um...thanks?

For what it's worth, we may have only been open 8+ months, but between my partner and I we have nearly 40+ years experience in the industry and a lot of great previous customers whom decided to stay with us and give us a shot when we started our own gig. Our philosophy has been to build on existing relationships, try and develop new ones and do everything we can to not be a commodity. That said we thought it'd take us approx 2 years to get where we are and we are thankful as heck to have groaning pains like we're having!

 

[Jack Knight1979]

Forge.

I'm happy for your accomplishments. I started my business with no clients, no equipment. I've built a nice little business, but when I hear about success stories like you it's bittersweet. I'm happy for others success, but can't wait to share some of my own good news. That's all.

Forge, I'm stoked that you're doing so well and that you have a partner bringing work to the table. You guys have made one hell of an accomplishment over there. Great work and accolades from Maine! When I buy my first hp flatbed, I'll be calling you for some help with it I'm sure.

I'm sorry if you took my post as negative to your success. That is not the case. Merely feeling the pinch of a long Maine winter & not running the one machine I have at full tilt.

Cheers!


P.S. I love the name of your business.

 

[ForgeInc]

Forge.

I'm happy for your accomplishments. I started my business with no clients, no equipment. I've built a nice little business, but when I hear about success stories like you it's bittersweet. I'm happy for others success, but can't wait to share some of my own good news. That's all.

Forge, I'm stoked that you're doing so well and that you have a partner bringing work to the table. You guys have made one hell of an accomplishment over there. Great work and accolades from Maine! When I buy my first hp flatbed, I'll be calling you for some help with it I'm sure.

I'm sorry if you took my post as negative to your success. That is not the case. Merely feeling the pinch of a long Maine winter & not running the one machine I have at full tilt.

Cheers!


P.S. I love the name of your business.

No worries, thanks! That's the problem with message boards and emails I reckon, sometimes tone can be misinterpreted.

And if you started with zero customers or equipment, I would say the fact you are still in business at all is an accomplishment! That is tough and in my mind would take way more guts than our situation, so good on ya.