Buying New or Used

[DaveD]

I'm curious what shop owners opinions are when it comes to buying expensive equipment. How do you feel about buying new versus buying used? Is the savings of several thousands of dollars worth the potential headache that may come along with it?

As an example, it seems that buying a used flatbed cutter or printer can save up to $20K.

 

[Gino]

A few things to put it all into perspective.

• Do you have one now ??
• Do you sub this work out ??
• Do you have a market or real need for this machine ??
• Most likely, if you're only saving 20k on a machine of this nature, you're really not saving anything.
• You won't have tech support and no warranty.
• Can you justify putting out a lotta money for all the things you won't get buying new ??
  • Now, if you're not using one now, you will greatly reduce in-house costs from a regular inkjet to a flatbed.
  • You might save more than that, according to what your needs will be.

In our first year, our flatbed was paid for in 3 months. However, we bought a demo unit, so we got all the bells and whistles when we bought the same as if we had bought new. What we saved in vinyl, subbing and monkey time, weas fa-a-a-ar greater than 20k.

 

[balstestrat]

I would think it like a car. Buy a new one and pay the full price, fewer headaches and warranty. Used one is cheaper but it needs more maintenance where you can save some if you are ready to spend the time on it.
I can see savings on some deals but not all of them. If the machine is known to be decent it shouldn't be a problem to get used one. You can have great deals and you can have a shitty ones.

 

[Geneva Olson]

I'm curious what shop owners opinions are when it comes to buying expensive equipment. How do you feel about buying new versus buying used? Is the savings of several thousands of dollars worth the potential headache that may come along with it?

As an example, it seems that buying a used flatbed cutter or printer can save up to $20K.

I bought a used printer. Knew it would be a problem getting parts and ink for it. I figured it would last me a year. It lasted me about 3 months. Just long enough for me to be in the swing of a business. I bought a new one through my supplier. Much happier. payments being made on it and when something goes wrong I call them up and they come out or talk me through it.
It is all in perspective. If you know how to use it and you can work on them and fix it, then buy used. But if you don't, then buy new. That's my philosophy at least.
I essentially made a $3000 mistake. Or I used it as a learning tool to get into the business.

 

[Billct2]

I use HP aqueous printers for a lot of poster work. Last 4 or 5 I bought refurbished from dealers with one year maintenance contracts. They have worked fine. Last two Gerber plotters I bought the same way, but only 90 day warranty. Also worked well. It's like the difference between a used car from a private party or a late model with dealer certification

 

[ChaseO]

I voted used, but it depends on the machine, and the circumstances. I have bought new and used printers, new and used plotters, new and used tools, but all of my aerial equipment has been used as the price of entry is more than I can stomach for the amount of income they bring in for me. For example, my bucket truck is well used, and I bought it 5ish years ago. I have made a good amount of money with it, but not enough to justify new. If I was in a bucket all day everyday, I would have considered buying new or newer, but I like not making payments on my truck when it sits for a month unused, which is rare, but does happen.

 

[FireSprint.com]

Depends alot on the type of shop you have. Small shop, where you don't mind tinkering and run your equipment a few hours a day or less, maybe used. If you're running your equipment for 12+ hours a day like we are we want factory support. Downtime is too costly.

Another factor (as mentioned) is whether or not you are buying your first unit, or if it's your second. It's alot easier to keep a second or third machine running of the same model than it is the first one.

I have seen this kind of thing compared to buying a car. In my humble opinion, it's not. There is no real KBB for used equipment value, and there isn't a tech on every corner like there is for your car. The used car market is huge, with a ton of support options that don't care where you bought the car from. Even a small town of 1000 people likely has a mechanic or two. Not likely the case for a printer repair man...

 

[Notarealsignguy]

It all depends on your expected utilization. Sometimes buying new and selling early is cheaper than buying used. Your cost is just the difference between what you buy it for and sell it for plus repairs.

 

[netsol]

I'm curious what shop owners opinions are when it comes to buying expensive equipment. How do you feel about buying new versus buying used? Is the savings of several thousands of dollars worth the potential headache that may come along with it?

As an example, it seems that buying a used flatbed cutter or printer can save up to $20K.

dave,
ALL of our equipment was purchased used, all of it not working. HOWEVER, i have years of experience, troubleshooting and refurbishing. if uou look at my history, i post as many newbie questions as anyone else, when the problem is outside of my comfort zone.

it's always a balancing act. $20,000 may not be much of a savings, in the long run. what will you be doing, when a problem occurs? if deadline is tight, does this mean subbing out? will you be able to revert to print & stick? obviously, you will be able to post problems on our forums, as they occur, but how many members have a similar flatbed?

i have a good friend who is a used car dealer. he always says no one ever traded in a car because it was running too good.

i would be the last person to talk you out of saving money by buying used, but, be realistic about your experience and skill set. the purpose of the flat bed is to save you time & money. each breakdown will cost you some of each

 

[Stacey K]

For me, it comes down to how handy am I or those around me to fix or troubleshoot if I buy used.

In 2016, my Dad talked me into buying a new vehicle vs a used one. I'm glad I did as no problems in the last 5 years at all...problems that I would not be able to fix or afford to have fixed. The low monthly payment for me was better for my budget than taking a chance at a large bill one month and sitting without a vehicle.

 

[DaveD]

These are all great insight on your decision making. I've never bought used in the past (with the exception of a bucket truck), but at the same time I've never bought equipment $100K plus. Peace of mind that your investment will continue to pay for itself and not break down has to play a role in deciding new or used. I think I'm leaning toward new and finding the best deal I can.

 

[InkjetMonkey]

I vote for buying a used machine.
However, there are many good companies that are factory trained engineers that provide ink, service and consumables and with the correct operator training they will give you years worth of reliability.
For example: Customer of mine bought a 2009 Durst Rho320 from a customer who wouldnt run it because of poor quality.
We took the machine and installed it, converted to our inks and it ran for that customer until they upgraded to a used 2016 Durst 512R.
The Durst Rho320R is at another customer running the same high quality as it was when it was installed at the previous customer and they have had 1 breakdown in 3 years.

It just depends on who you buy off and how will they support your business going forward.

I have many other stories that we can make an good case for buying second/third hand machines.

In short, if the operator is trained properly and maintains the machine in a good condition then the engineer just fixes the problems as they arise (caveat that with good quality spares and most importantly the Ink has to be high quality)

 

[WildWestDesigns]

My thinking is am I getting someone else's problem or not.

Now, I have bought demo units and that's a great way to get a "new" machine (where it counts) as well as having a price reduction where it counts.

It used to be before OEMs would take units from show to show, get them at the end of a local show, but that actually changed even before the show circuit bottomed out last year (and this year so far isn't looking all that good, at least not for the shows that used to show up here).

Even if I have that 2nd or more unit, I tend to still favor new as it comes with all the other perks as well (warranty, service support), but it all depends on what you are willing and able to do.

The used car market is huge, with a ton of support options that don't care where you bought the car from. Even a small town of 1000 people likely has a mechanic or two. Not likely the case for a printer repair man...

This will not be the case when your later model cars are your used car market and this will be applicable to most any type of machinery. It will be harder and harder for your shade tree mechanics to keep you up and running. So, I will say the car analogy will become very much analogous to this situation pretty quickly. As it will with a lot of other tech that we use as well, if the current course remains the same.