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Buying new Printer..WHICH ONE?!!

SoIllsignman

SoIllsignman

New Member
I need a little help!

I have spent over $7,000 in outsourcing my print jobs this past year. So, I have decided
to check the printer market and see about purchasing one.

I do a lot of banners and vinyl prints (applying print to substrates and such).
I do have one client that buys about $2,500 (separate from the $7,000 estimate) worth of posters from me a year.

I have a 30" Graphtec fc8000 that I use for contour cutting when I outsource.

What I have been looking at.....

Grimco has a:
HP 54" L310 after rebates and such around $12,995 (includes take up reel, Ink, training, etc)- I have to act this week for all the discounts

Fellers has a:
ValueJet 1324x $10,387 (includes ink and media, Delivery, set-up and training and a 2yr warranty)

Raco has a
1324x as well that is an open box special for $9,000 (has ink and warranty)

I also have quotes on the Roland Versacamm 540v from
$5000-$10,000 and $20,000 for the newer model


I was all about the Latex printers..Instant drying, easy to maintain and the ability to print on a large assortment of materials..
I have heard equal good and bad about them!
Will I need a nuclear reactor to run one? Do they not print crisp images for smaller applications? PLEASE...If you own one PM me, email me or call me and let me know if it is worth it!

Now....should I go eco solvent instead? Which printer should I steer clear from.

I am not going to drop $20,000 on a printer right now.
,.....Yes, I am a bit frustrated with all this right now.

I welcome your thoughts and please share your experience your printer of choice.

-SoIll
herrinsigns@gmail.com
 
TomK

TomK

New Member
I can't speak for the other printers, we went from a couple Gerber Thermals to the HP Latex directly, and I have no experience with the eco solvent printers. I was so happy to retire the Gerber printers!

With the HP, you will need 2 x 208V/20A power circuits.

I went with the HP Latex 310, after looking at the Roland's, (1) due to easier maintenance, (2) being able to laminate immediately, and (3) simple to operate, no mess, no fuss. The installer told me if I went with an eco solvent printer (he's serviced Roland's, Mimaki's, etc), that I would eventually have ink all over the floor/walls/surrounding the printer area, sort of funny.

The printing quality has been fine, however I am having issues dialing in proper colors for Red, Yellow, Orange, and Gray. I've got the red's just about fixed.

We do stickers, signs, and small prints, nothing super high quality in terms of color accuracy, so it hasn't been a real big problem for us.

I wish HP would release a Latex that would allow for 110V power and/or a smaller unit, if they did, I'd buy another one ASAP.

No regrets, but then again I'm not a big professional sign shop like many of the other members here.
 
SoIllsignman

SoIllsignman

New Member
HDvinyl said:
$7k/year is not worth buying a printer.
Click to expand...


I payed Signs365 and B2Signs a little over $7,000 in printing and shipping of the work I needed and an additional $2,500 in poster printing.

So, How much in outsourcing do I need to get to in order to start printing myself?

I thought that having my own printer would also open the option for partial wraps (of course that mean a laminator as well.) and the such.
Having a printer in house should bring more revenue and profit...right?

-SoIll





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Read that comment.
 
S

SignMeUpGraphics

Super Active Member
TomK said:
The installer told me if I went with an eco solvent printer (he's serviced Roland's, Mimaki's, etc), that I would eventually have ink all over the floor/walls/surrounding the printer area, sort of funny.
Click to expand...

What a shill.
We've had a Roland for 5+ years and the thing still looks brand new from the outside.
A few stray ink dots inside the machine, but absolutely nothing of the sort "all over the floor and walls".
 
HDvinyl

HDvinyl

Trump 2020
I'm not going to put all the numbers out there, but your profit margin will probably be less because of quality control and higher shipping cost.
 
SoIllsignman

SoIllsignman

New Member
HDvinyl said:
I'm not going to put all the numbers out there, but your profit margin will probably be less because of quality control and higher shipping cost.
Click to expand...

I'm paying $1.50 a sqft plus $10-$25 in shipping for every order.

please help me understand..
I will have less quality and pay more in shipping with my own printer?
What am I shipping?

Are you saying the quality of the banners are probably not any better than the printers I'm outsourcing to?

When a customer comes in my shop and orders a banner... I could possibly by the end of the day or next day have their banner.

I thought adding a printer to my shop would be a good thing.
 
ams

ams

New Member
I highly recommend going with a Roland, go with Eco-Solvent ink. CMYK is all you need but if you can afford a little more, grab a white ink.
 
rdm01

rdm01

New Member
I think you may need to head back to the drawing table. A printer should be paired with a laminator for one, or else your options are truly limited for in-house production. Call it $20,000 for printer, inks, laminator, installation, etc. Your ROI should be about 2 years. The cost savings on $10k/yr by bringing it in house isn't going to cut it.
 
reQ

reQ

New Member
$1.50 sqft? Its pretty decent price for digital print + overlam. Doing it in house will cost you roughly ( depends on few factors)

1) Cal + overlam $ 0.7-0.8 sq/ft
2) Cast + overlam $1.20-$1.70 sq/ft


So by simple math, considering your 7k/year mark, you use roughly 5000 sqft of vinyl. Cost of printing it in house will save you lets say 1/2 price (0.70), which turns into $3500.

Now, decent printer will cost you 12-19k, if you lease it, total cost will be roughly 14-22k over 3 years, so it would cost you $350-$600 per month, which gives you $4200-7200 per year of lease expense. Now you have to stock materials, which will cost again. Add other minor stuff, like printer maintenance etc and tell me if it worth buying your own printer right now.

Oh yeah, and as was mentions you need a laminator, at least cheap one will cost you $2500-$3000. And now you have to print everything yourself, which takes your time + screwed up materials (it will happen) which will cost money again :)
 
P

player

New Member
^ Or you can order you prints and pretend you are happy with colour shifts and banding, sizing errors and missed deadlines...
 
W

WCSign

New Member
You obviously have a good base, this doesnt account for sales that you miss out on because people want stuff now.

Buy a vs54 roland and a laminator, your business can sustain the payments.

I have metallic and white. Haven't used the white once, noone wants to pay for the metallic

once you have that printer, it will inspire you to do more things and advertise more which will bring more business.


i bought my printer with zero business and within 6 months it was paying for itself.
 
Signout

Signout

New Member
Roland 540

We have the Roland 540, I have found it very easy to maintain, and very clean ( No Ink on the walls, or anywhere else for that matter!) I love the printer, it prints beautifully and I have easily paid for it. I think if you are already doing that much printing, you will grow your business by having one in your shop. IMO
 
ams

ams

New Member
rdm01 said:
I think you may need to head back to the drawing table. A printer should be paired with a laminator for one, or else your options are truly limited for in-house production. Call it $20,000 for printer, inks, laminator, installation, etc. Your ROI should be about 2 years. The cost savings on $10k/yr by bringing it in house isn't going to cut it.
Click to expand...

I agree that you do need a laminator, never make permanent signs without laminate and never do wraps or anything without it.
By the way you can pick up a great deal on a printer on Ebay for $6,000 - $10,000. Get a print/cut only and throw away your graphtec. Then you will have space for the laminator.
The VP540 is great.
 
FatCat

FatCat

New Member
Understand completely about the excitement and frustration over choosing which printer and all of that. However, I caution you to look at your numbers again - if what you are saying is true, it just doesn't make sense for you to buy one at this point in time.

For example; if a customer orders a 3x5 banner, and you are not currently setup as a high production shop, you will need approx 10-15 minutes to load the banner on the printer, rip the file and print the print. Then another 10-15 minutes to trim down the banner, hem the edges and punch grommets. All in all it could take about a half hour of labor to run that one banner from start to finish - and if your shops hourly rate is $50/hr you have to factor in $25 of added cost to the banner to be fair with yourself and your numbers. *And NOTE that I didn't even mention anything about the cost of the material, ink, banner tape, grommets, etc...

Meanwhile, subbing out to a wholesaler like Signs365 will cost you $1.49/sq ft, + $10 shipping = $22.35. So think hard before you make a blanket statement that it costs "less" to do it yourself.
 
reQ

reQ

New Member
FatCat said:
Understand completely about the excitement and frustration over choosing which printer and all of that. However, I caution you to look at your numbers again - if what you are saying is true, it just doesn't make sense for you to buy one at this point in time.

For example; if a customer orders a 3x5 banner, and you are not currently setup as a high production shop, you will need approx 10-15 minutes to load the banner on the printer, rip the file and print the print. Then another 10-15 minutes to trim down the banner, hem the edges and punch grommets. All in all it could take about a half hour of labor to run that one banner from start to finish - and if your shops hourly rate is $50/hr you have to factor in $25 of added cost to the banner to be fair with yourself and your numbers. *And NOTE that I didn't even mention anything about the cost of the material, ink, banner tape, grommets, etc...

Meanwhile, subbing out to a wholesaler like Signs365 will cost you $1.49/sq ft, + $10 shipping = $22.35. So think hard before you make a blanket statement that it costs "less" to do it yourself.
Click to expand...


I have strong feeling that both of us wasted 5 minutes trying explaining that :) People usually think that we are their enemies & don't want them to succeed, which is not the case.
 
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