Buying new Printer..WHICH ONE?!!

[SoIllsignman]

I appreciate everyone taking time giving me their opinion.

I have been making signs now for 9 years and have been outsourcing my prints from day one. Each year I have grown more and more.
I pay $1.49 a sqft for banners (plus shipping) and $2.49 a sqft for intermediate vinyl and $4.98 and up for wrap material. Maybe I shouldn't have said how much a paid for outsourcing with the 2 major companies I
order from because some people are not answering my question, just stating I shouldn't get a printer. Which is fine, I am open to here your thoughts.

I have heard that if you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got! I have to assume that you can increase your profits if you have your own printer....if not, then everyone of you
would be outsourcing.

I just now put in a banner order for a 3x6 130z banner and paid $36.52 (that includes the $10 shipping) So, instead of making $53.48 as profit, printing this banner out myself I could have made $81.00 profit.

Yes, I know that prints need to be laminated. I said that at the beginning.

For those of you who purchased a printer and it ruined your business or if it did not bring in a profit, I am open to here your opinion as well.

 

[HDvinyl]

I just now put in a banner order for a 3x6 130z banner and paid $36.52 (that includes the $10 shipping) So, instead of making $53.48 as profit, printing this banner out myself I could have made $81.00 profit.

Good luck in your 10th year of business, may it bring you hundreds of dollars in profit.

 

[reQ]

For those of you who purchased a printer and it ruined your business or if it did not bring in a profit, I am open to here your opinion as well.

I spoke about my own experience. I had 1200 sq/ft shop & 24" plotter. After 2nd year i made 60k in sales, which i thought was alright and then i decided i wanna be "big guy" leased brand new roland printer & new cutter, laser engraver & full screen printing set up... i was struggling for 2 years because my sales did now always support my debt. Lease companies did not care if i had an order or no, they want their money (compare to outsourcing - don't pay if you don't have anything to print).

I learned my lesson, but its up to you. Its easy to get the equipment, its harder to get business for it.

 

[reQ]

I just now put in a banner order for a 3x6 130z banner and paid $36.52 (that includes the $10 shipping) So, instead of making $53.48 as profit, printing this banner out myself I could have made $81.00 profit.

btw, this is very poor math, i don't think you do understand margin & profit margins when it comes to products...

 

[trakers]

Owned a Mutoh purchased from Feller’s for a number of years. No major issues outside a defective MS straight away. Feller’s (lifetime, no charge, Toll-free) tech support has been awesome.

There certainly is a capital expenditure buying a printer, stocking material, etc. but I cannot imagine having our business rep banking on outsourced printing.

I’m sure there are outsourcing superstars out there, but I am anal, OCD about the work we produce and want that risk/reward sitting directly on my shoulders.

Even if the numbers aren’t ideal, the piece of mind of having ones own equipment means a lot to me.

The upside is perhaps you can open new profit avenues when you get your new printer. Let us know which one you choose.

 

[SoIllsignman]

Good luck in your 10th year of business, may it bring you hundreds of dollars in profit.

WOW....ok.... Lots of sarcasm there! Of course you have to pay for ink and material and such.(Rent, electrical, internet...) I should not have used the word "profit".

You have to be careful what you say in here!

5sq ft x18ft (6x3 banner) = $90 customer price I payed $36.52 for the outsourcing and printing- Which means that I have $53.48 left
IF I printed myself (also depending on the printer,ink and material) let's say it costs me $.50 a sqft to print a banner (just to print, not hem and grommet) then it would
cost me $9 to make. Then the money I would have left after the customer pays is..$81.00

Let's all have a great day! Snow on the ground here in Southern Illinois.....doing my taxes... God is good and I hope you are all blessed too much! Nothing but love for ya!

 

[CanuckSigns]

I just now put in a banner order for a 3x6 130z banner and paid $36.52 (that includes the $10 shipping) So, instead of making $53.48 as profit, printing this banner out myself I could have made $81.00 profit.

Your math is a bit off, let me correct it for you.

Lets take design time out of the equation and assume you are printing client supplied artwork that is perfectly set up. I will also use $60/hr as a shop rate

You currently invest around 10 minutes uploading the artwork, and filling out the options on your wholesaler's website =$10 +the banner and shipping=$46.52 total

If you buy a printer it will look like this:

Load Printer with material & wait for printer to be ready to print - 10 minutes =$10
Print 1-2 feet of banner and realize there is a handprint in the ink and you need to start again (this happens more often than you think) = $4 materials, 5 minutes time =$9
Print banner - $9 material, 20 minutes time =$29
Hem grommet and finish banner - 20 minutes =$20 + $5 in hem tape and grommets =$25
Package banner up - 10 minutes =$10

Total - $83

I'm not saying there is no reason to buy your own printer, we've had a printer for the last 8-9 years, but we got it not to save money, but to be able to control quality and meet deadlines.

you know your business best, so take this with a grain of salt, but buying a printer is not going to be the magic ticket to more profit that you think it will.

 

[SoIllsignman]

Grimco sent me a sample from a hp 360 latex printer. This is a sample of a poster that a customer has sent me in the past.
Looks pretty good.

 

[FatCat]

I appreciate everyone taking time giving me their opinion.

......
I just now put in a banner order for a 3x6 130z banner and paid $36.52 (that includes the $10 shipping) So, instead of making $53.48 as profit, printing this banner out myself I could have made $81.00 profit.

No, I don't think you are understanding basic business or comparing apples to apples with your decision. Every shop should base their structure for charging their customers "X" based on an "hourly rate". This is the rate you come to when you plug in your rent/utilities/insurance/salary/taxes, etc. My shop's hourly rate is $65.00/hr so if I had only myself (which I don't) and I agreed to create a "widget" for a customer that takes an hour to make, I have to charge $65.00 to cover my expense, PLUS materials, and any other extras outside of labor and materials.

So, getting back to your statement above... If your shop's hourly rate is $50/hr, you must subtract the time (labor) it took you to make that banner (1/2 Hour = $25.00) plus cost of the banner materials ($9.00) which is $34.00 which is only $2.52 LESS than what it cost you to outsource it. You MUST charge for YOUR time as a part of the pricing process or you are doomed to fail. The sign fairies didn't come and make the banner while you were sleeping, and simply writing your time off as "worthless" or "free" is foolish.
--

But since you don't want to hear any of this - go buy whatever printer you want. If you are only doing $10,000/yr in wide format sales after 9 years in business, you are certainly not going to magically have enough business growth after a year to have a sound ROI on your investment just because you bought a printer. I've seen it happen more times than I care to remember - salesman says "If you buy it, they will come!" Bullsh!t...that's how you wind up having the bank come repo that fancy printer or you having to sell if for whatever you can get out of it to recoup some of your money. Go ask a banker or financial advisor if you don't believe me. Any $10,000 printer will sink you. Again, not trying to smash your dreams or tell you it can't be done, it can be done - but not with the kind of sales you are stating. I really am just trying to offer you helpful advice that at this juncture.

Build your sales first, buy your printer after.

 

[ams]

I appreciate everyone taking time giving me their opinion.

I have been making signs now for 9 years and have been outsourcing my prints from day one. Each year I have grown more and more.
I pay $1.49 a sqft for banners (plus shipping) and $2.49 a sqft for intermediate vinyl and $4.98 and up for wrap material. Maybe I shouldn't have said how much a paid for outsourcing with the 2 major companies I
order from because some people are not answering my question, just stating I shouldn't get a printer. Which is fine, I am open to here your thoughts.

I have heard that if you do what you have always done then you will get what you have always got! I have to assume that you can increase your profits if you have your own printer....if not, then everyone of you
would be outsourcing.

I just now put in a banner order for a 3x6 130z banner and paid $36.52 (that includes the $10 shipping) So, instead of making $53.48 as profit, printing this banner out myself I could have made $81.00 profit.

Yes, I know that prints need to be laminated. I said that at the beginning.

For those of you who purchased a printer and it ruined your business or if it did not bring in a profit, I am open to here your opinion as well.

Generally all of the online print companies who UV printer or flatbeds at between 360 - 600 DPI. So the images are blurry and crappy looking. They are setup for fast production and turn around times.
When you print your own, you will be printing at 720 - 1440 DPI and it'll look a hundred times better.

My cost on 13oz banners is about 90 cents per sq. ft. that is for the banner material and ink full bleed. With grommets and hemming maybe $1.15 - $1.20

 

[BigfishDM]

I sell printers and media for a living now for 20 years and I can tell you with confidence YOUR NOT READY FOR A PRINTER! Please feel free to call me if you want a breakdown, keep doing what your doing and grow that number to $15-20k a month then reconsider. There are so many things your not thinking of yet and that's just simply because you don't know what you don't know. There are some brilliant members in here and their advice is worth its weight in gold!

 

[trakers]

Just a heads up

Received an E-Mail from Grimco that they are selling the Epson SureColor S30675 printer, new, with ink and install for $7,995

I know nothing about that printer or if that is a good price, but it seems so.

 

[TomK]

Just a heads up

Received an E-Mail from Grimco that they are selling the Epson SureColor S30675 printer, new, with ink and install for $7,995

I know nothing about that printer or if that is a good price, but it seems so.

I got the same email. I assume this is Epson clearing out the channel for the new models ready to hit the market.

Tom

 

[TheSnowman]

They are. Had a guy trying to sell me this for this price from some other company a month ago when I was looking at new machines. I ended up going w/ a Latex 310, but that was tempting as a "buy and use till the warranty is out, then throw away if you need to" scenario. I figured I was better off going with quality.

 

[TomK]

They are. Had a guy trying to sell me this for this price from some other company a month ago when I was looking at new machines. I ended up going w/ a Latex 310, but that was tempting as a "buy and use till the warranty is out, then throw away if you need to" scenario. I figured I was better off going with quality.

You're saying the Epson quality is bad, or this specific printer is bad?

 

[TheSnowman]

No, I'm not saying it's bad. It's probably really good for the price. They were telling me that the first version of this printer had some big issues, and that they think a lot of them had been addressed, but now they're coming out with a new model so they've dropped the price on these current models to move them. 75% of my work is short term work that needs to go out the door the same day, so latex just made more sense for me being instant dry.

So far, I like the latex a lot more, but only time will tell. I think for a starter in the printer world, it's probably a smokin deal.

 

[boxerbay]

That Epson Grimco deal is great for a new shop. basic cmyk 4 color printer. jump on that if you can. Also get a laminator to lam and mount prints. Seal base or Royal Sovereign 64"

not sure why everyone is trying to talk you out of what you have already decided to do. It's not what you asked help in deciding.

The new Epson S series have g3 inks which are supposed to be quicker drying.

 

[SoIllsignman]

Alright.....

Finished getting my taxes ready and I was way off on my original post!

I spent $19,420 (not the $7,000 as first mentioned) on banner and vinyl printing and $3,220 on poster printing. Not that anyone really needs to know that, but since I started the post with an incorrect
number..thought I would fix it.

BTW, I got that Grimco offer this morning as well.. $7,995 for a Epson SureColor S30670. It looks like there may be a lot of head replacing from owners.
I am open to hear from owners of this model...Is it worth it?

I found a sign business selling a Mimaki JV33-130 for $6000 and it is still in use. They have upgraded to a bigger printer and they do not have room for it.
They are offering to show me the ins and outs of it as well. As mentioned in my previous posts, I will need to purchase a laminator for vinyl prints.

Thoughts?

 

[boxerbay]

new with warranty is always better.

 

[player]

People drop $25K-$60K on a new vehicle and nobody gets out the slide-rule and taxi rates, but when it comes to buying the main cornerstone of the business it is a bad derision if not amortized over 2 years.

If you don't use your printer steady, it will last longer. Many printers are still working past the 10 year mark. If that happens, the printer that cost $20K would cost $2K per year plus repairs. On a 5 year amortization that's $4K plus repairs. I had my last ecosol printer for 11 years, and it is still in use and printing as new.

NOTE: The new solvent printers have only one big single head with up to 10 colour channels (DX5; DX6; DX7...). If one channel (colour) goes bad you have to replace the whole head which is thou$ands of dollars vs the dual channel DX4 head that costs around $800USD plus install fee. The HP latex printers have cheaper heads that are changed more frequently, but the printers have lots of plastic parts and may not be as mechanically durable as the Roland mild solvent printers. HP users could shed more light on this.

 

[TheSnowman]

Kind of depends what the training is worth to you, but I just sold my JV33-130 w/ matching plotter for $5,000 and it was only 3 years old with all new parts. I don't know if that's a great deal, but it's probably not a horrible.

Alright.....

Finished getting my taxes ready and I was way off on my original post!

I spent $19,420 (not the $7,000 as first mentioned) on banner and vinyl printing and $3,220 on poster printing. Not that anyone really needs to know that, but since I started the post with an incorrect
number..thought I would fix it.

BTW, I got that Grimco offer this morning as well.. $7,995 for a Epson SureColor S30670. It looks like there may be a lot of head replacing from owners.
I am open to hear from owners of this model...Is it worth it?

I found a sign business selling a Mimaki JV33-130 for $6000 and it is still in use. They have upgraded to a bigger printer and they do not have room for it.
They are offering to show me the ins and outs of it as well. As mentioned in my previous posts, I will need to purchase a laminator for vinyl prints.

Thoughts?