Need Help Calendered OR Cast Vinyl for Printed Exterior Sign

[djdg]

Hello,

I'm wondering if I should use calendered or cast vinyl for exterior signage.

I'm making exterior signs - printing on vinyl and then laminating and then applying the vinyl to a flat substrate, dibond (double-sided aluminum with a poly core). I have an Epson S40600 and I laminate all of my prints. Is it ok to use a standard calendered vinyl with air release and grey backer and laminate it? Will this last for 5 years or is it an absolute must to go with cast vinyl?

The size of the signs are about 36"h x 55"w

Thank you all for you time.

 

[dypinc]

Check into polymeric calendared. Not as good as cast but better than monomeric calendared.

Anyone have any real world test result with polymeric yet.

 

[ikarasu]

Depends if it's facing the sun, where your located... Etc.

Is it going up high? Will customers be looking at it closely?

If you're using cheap vinyl... Are you using cheap overlaminate? Does it have UV protection in it? If not it won't last 5 years.

Will shrinkage make the sign look bad? Odds are by 5 years a calendered will shrink. If it's up high.. not a big deal. If it's at eyesight.. it'll be noticeable.

Are we talking a cheap $100 mono calendered or a semi-decent polymeric calendered?

Id use ij40 and 8048, or 8508. Ij40 is a 4-7 year vinyl depending on exposure.

Depending on the sign and it's use... If it's a customer's main sign, I'd want it to look good for as long as possible and use a cast.

Not every calendered is made to last, or made equally.. so it's kind of a trick question. Too many factors to say, or to pick one type of.vinyl for every job in the category.

 

[ikarasu]

Check into polymeric calendared. Not as good as cast but better than monomeric calendared.

Anyone have any real world test result with polymeric yet.

Yes. Monomeric is good for under a year... Poly is good for 4. Anything higher than 4 and we use a cast. We put some ij40 on our vehicle wrap and it's been out facing the sun for 3 years so far and it looks just as good as day one. Polymeric is great... I wouldn't use it on something super important, but it's a great medium grade vinyl.

 

[djdg]

Check into polymeric calendared. Not as good as cast but better than monomeric calendared.

Anyone have any real world test result with polymeric yet.

Thanks for your feedack. I use cast vinyl for all vehicles and boats. I 'm kind of hoping I can use calendered and laminated vinyl since my signs are flat - to give my customer a better rate.

My thought process is, if it shrinks a little around the edges, no problem because there's a 1/2" retainer so the shrinkage wouldn't be seen. My concern is if it will completely lift or bubble or fade too quickly.

 

[djdg]

Depends if it's facing the sun, where your located... Etc.

Is it going up high? Will customers be looking at it closely?

If you're using cheap vinyl... Are you using cheap overlaminate? Does it have UV protection in it? If not it won't last 5 years.

Will shrinkage make the sign look bad? Odds are by 5 years a calendered will shrink. If it's up high.. not a big deal. If it's at eyesight.. it'll be noticeable.

Are we talking a cheap $100 mono calendered or a semi-decent polymeric calendered?

Id use ij40 and 8048, or 8508. Ij40 is a 4-7 year vinyl depending on exposure.

Depending on the sign and it's use... If it's a customer's main sign, I'd want it to look good for as long as possible and use a cast.

Not every calendered is made to last, or made equally.. so it's kind of a trick question. Too many factors to say, or to pick one type of.vinyl for every job in the category.

I was considering using Briteline Duration IM5651 for calendered vinyl because it's rated for 5 years with a General Formulations 402 UV. Signs are eye level and some are in direct sunlight and others are shaded.

It looks like cast vinyl and cast laminate is the route I'll take. Do you have a preference to a cast vinyl brand?

 

[ikarasu]

Ij40 + 8048 is a decent calendered. Avery makes a decent one... I'd stay away from brightline, it may be good but you never know how house vinyl is. Some brightline is ok, but we'd only ever use it for temp stuff or real estate.

For cast I'd use 180 +8518... It's double price, but unless the customer is paying bottom of the barrel prices it's not that big of a difference per sign.


Were a 3M company and I know 3M products like the back of my hand, so that's what I stick with. But avery, oracal, pretty much any decent brand names medium grade calendered should be ok.

 

[djdg]

Ij40 + 8048 is a decent calendered. Avery makes a decent one... I'd stay away from brightline, it may be good but you never know how house vinyl is. Some brightline is ok, but we'd only ever use it for temp stuff or real estate.

For cast I'd use 180 +8518... It's double price, but unless the customer is paying bottom of the barrel prices it's not that big of a difference per sign.


Were a 3M company and I know 3M products like the back of my hand, so that's what I stick with. But avery, oracal, pretty much any decent brand names medium grade calendered should be ok.

Thank you for your suggestions. I use a great deal of Oracal Cast vinyl for straight cut vinyl so I'll give Oracal a go for printing. Thanks again!

 

[Snydo]

If you are in the north half of the country it will last 5 years easy. We have several 10 years out on 3641 with decent lam and they still look fine from the road.
If it's heavy coverage let it outgas fully before lamming.

 

[equippaint]

I use 3165 with 215 laminate for pretty much all flat signs and cut decals including my own. 4 years, full bleed and are still fine. We use 3551 with 215 on concrete trucks partial wraps. Never 1 complaint or replacement.
People are not expecting signs to last 20 years z

 

[djdg]

Have you used the 3651RA? I'm trying to understand the difference between teh 3165 vs 3651.

 

[equippaint]

Have you used the 3651RA? I'm trying to understand the difference between teh 3165 vs 3651.

3651 is thinner and a bit more expensive. Have used both but with cut decals the customers prefer a heavier material. May be less chance of curling with 3651 but the oracal rep said no. Ra is rapid air = air egress. We always order gloss air egress, its just easier. Either is a fine choice. If all I did was flat signs, id lean towards 3651gra.

 

[SameDay Signs]

You have to try Avery 2923 easy matte finish it is polymeric prints and installs great w the air release and laser better then any product I've used other then cast wrap materials

 

[TimToad]

Have you used the 3651RA? I'm trying to understand the difference between teh 3165 vs 3651.

We started off using 3651ra and Oraguard 210 five years ago, switched to 3m ij35c two years ago but didn't see enough advantages for the extra money and now are back to 3641ra and 210 lam. The 3651ra mounts better than ij35c and the lustre and matte lam is much more consistent and even toned than 8508 or 8509. We've had very few to no failures even in an exceptionally high UV area. Any sign considered "permanent" gets cast and matching lam.

 

[equippaint]

We started off using 3651ra and Oraguard 210 five years ago, switched to 3m ij35c two years ago but didn't see enough advantages for the extra money and now are back to 3641ra and 210 lam. The 3651ra mounts better than ij35c and the lustre and matte lam is much more consistent and even toned than 8508 or 8509. We've had very few to no failures even in an exceptionally high UV area. Any sign considered "permanent" gets cast and matching lam.

3551 with 290 lam is a good choice for more permanent signs or simple wraps. Weve got complaints on cast material because it gets blown off from pressure washers (3551 too) Permanent is different to some I suppose. 3165/3651 is pretty aggressive.

 

[TimToad]

3551 with 290 lam is a good choice for more permanent signs or simple wraps. Weve got complaints on cast material because it gets blown off from pressure washers (3551 too) Permanent is different to some I suppose. 3165/3651 is pretty aggressive.

It's a rare non-vehicular application where pressure washers are bring used on panel signs and such. We always recommend that folks clean their signs to remove road film, grime and other pollutants that can affect the finish, but it's not done by most.

I think we're in agreement but don't want to assume anything but I see you frequently express the shared opinion of how long anyone should expect certain types of signage to last. If we're doing a primary location sign for someone who expects maximum durability, we use cast wrap material. In most other cases, a good quality calendar type is plenty good enough to get 4-6 years of durability. With increasingly harsh environmental conditions, our industry will need to adjust in order to be able to stand behind our work.

We get quite a few customers who come to us after other vendors in our area have made exaggerated claims on durability and color vastness, only to see burnt laminate, fading and edge curling after just a couple years.

 

[ORAFOL Americas]

Good Afternoon djdg,

Please feel free to contact one of our Product Support Specialists at 912-851-5000, or toll free at 888-672-2251. They would be happy to help, and answer any of the questions you may have about our products.

Have a great day!

 

[djdg]

Good Afternoon djdg,

Please feel free to contact one of our Product Support Specialists at 912-851-5000, or toll free at 888-672-2251. They would be happy to help, and answer any of the questions you may have about our products.

Have a great day!

I met you guys at ISA, but I've been using ORAFOL for 15 years. Absolutely love your products.