"Can I just see what it would look like first..."

[neato]

Ok, I'll admit, customer relations isn't my strong suit.

Just had a customer use this line on me after giving him a quote for a sell sheet layout. Keep in mind, I've already done a bit of work for him over the last couple months. He's been pretty good to deal with so far.

"Can I see what you might be able to do before I commit to $90?"

Now, I can think of a dozen snarky ways to respond to this. But how would you do it diplomatically?

 

[GAC05]

My first response would be to open up a jpg with Windows notepad and send him a screen cap of the code....
Second thought would be to show him stuff in your portfolio that is similar to what he is asking for and leave it at that.

wayne k
guam usa

 

[mrugen]

Can I see it first?

"Well, here's what we can do. Let's take a deck of cards and each pick a card, if your card wins, you can take a look, if mine wins it's $100 instead? DEAL?"

 

[HDvinyl]

"Can you come show me what half the money will look like in my hand?"

 

[neato]

"Can you come show me what half the money will look like in my hand?"

I don't even mess around with collecting half. I always get paid up front now unless it's one of about 5 customers that I've been working with for years and have a great relationship with. And I must say, I have some really great clients.

But I've been burnt too and learned I don't want to spend my free time designing for someone who won't show their appreciation by paying. If I'm going to work for free, I'd rather go fishing.

 

[Billct2]

I would show some samples of other similar pieces and explain that to show him what his would look like would take $90 worth of your time.

 

[CanuckSigns]

When we get asked this we either go ahead and bite the bullet and come up with a design, this is only if they are a good existing client with a history of not picking apart everything.

the other times we send them examples of previous work for them to get a feel for what we can do.

however in your situation where it's design only, I would either collect 50% up front or remind them that $90 is not a lot of money.

 

[tattoo.dan]

absolutely drives me up the wall! Good luck. I find myself getting a lot quicker and shorter with my responses to these situations, so I doubt my 2¢ would be of any help here Phillip!

sidenote though...if the customer has gotten work from you before they should have a pretty good idea of what they will be getting. I know that from personal experience...

 

[Gino]

I would just say...... on something of this nature, we don't waste any time creating proofs. There is nothing here to get fancy about. make up a number...... $100..... $150....... $250 and tell them, these amounts get paid in full ND we'll send you a proof with up to one revision. You know my work,you don't have anything to fear...... you know I'm fair.

 

[phototec]

I don't know what kind of business he has, but I would ask him if he works for FREE, then when he answers, "no way, I can't work for free", then you politely say, either do I, so I can't do the work of creating something for you to look at for FREE.

In my case I charge $50/hour design time, so I would offer him preliminary sketches (30mins) for $25 up front...

 

[Rick]

I always refer them to my portfolio...

If it's not in my portfolio (or something close to it) then I might
have them google ideas to me.

I think this is where Pinterest might work real well for a design
business. Set up an inspiration board, and let them peruse through
that only after the deal is made.

Gigi just brought up something to me...
-- If seeing your work doesn't make the sale, then how is doing a
quickie layout gonna help?

-- You don't even know what's it's gonna like for Pete's sake...

-- Problem with doing a quick layout is you still need photos and content.
Kinda hard to do the layout... How are you supposed to know what it
looks like without all the correct pics and content? By that time, the job's
almost done with no cash in your pocket..
which brings me to my other point...

Is this single or double sided? Because 90 bucks is painfully cheap
even for single sided... daddy needs a new computer and the fridge is empty
and 90 bucks a pop ain't gonna cut it.

 

[reQ]

Have customer like that at least once a week. And yes, its all depends what kind of customer. If its good existing customer - i would always do something upfront, if it some one who i see first time in my life - no way i would design anything for free, unless its a vinyl cut name for the car for quick cash lol.
Also have people who said - can you design couple different logos for me and i will see if i like them, but i don't want to to pay upfront.... NEVER touch this ones.
Another one is with vehicle wraps - i am not sure what i want, can you come up with something eye catchy and cool and i will see if i like it?.... NEVER touch this ones also.

Lot of people don't understand that it takes our time and time is money.

 

[Jillbeans]

I also get paid in full up front for design work.
Questions like this make me twitch in the face.
Having no customer skills whatsoever (which is why deal with them via email only) I always say something cocky that cheeses them off.
It's hard not to instantly want to go on the defense.
But it's true. It's 90 damn dollars. Show them something similar you've done in the past (watermarked of course) or have them send you something that they like.
They probably keep the sample ladies at Sam's Club quite busy when they go there for "lunch".
I have been dealing with a (paid up front) customer since before Christmas. "Just keep on playing with it, showing me different ideas until I see something I like". I stopped playing after two ideas and broke out the damn clip art.
Love....Jill

 

[shibby]

Unfortunately for me our shop policy is to always do a layout. We have several "customers" a week who will come by wanting to "see what it would look like". So our sales staff spends the time getting their information, putting them into the system, and going over what the details of the job would be. They write the estimate up and put the paperwork on my hook for a layout. There's no way for me personally to differentiate between a "let's just see" estimate versus an actual live estimate. There are typically two-three estimates a week that I never see come back across my desk for design revisions, or that have been converted into a Production Invoice. But I think that's based more off the Dallas area and the part of town we are in. Maybe it stems from a sense of entitlement more so than a fear on the customers part that their dollar won't get them what the want.

 

[Marlene]

"no"

that is the answer to his question

 

[neato]

I told him I could do half of it for $60

The thing with this project is it was something he already had designed, and it wasn't bad either. He just wanted me to put my touch on it.

But like Rick said, if I show him a concept, I've already done the creative work, which is what I charge for.

This isn't a sign shop customer BTW, it's a retail customer. I don't have issues like this with most sign people since they understand the value of design

I'll never understand sign shops doing a layout for free as part of the process. To me, your saying to your customer "This design isn't worth anything, here, take it". If your just getting started, it may be necessary to build a portfolio, but once you have a portfolio, like Rick said, send them there to see your work. To me, the design, not the materials or fabrication, is what makes a sign effective. So why give that away?

Can you imagine an architect working for free just so his client can see what their house ideas might look like?

 

[Gino]

I told him I could do half of it for $60

The thing with this project is it was something he already had designed, and it wasn't bad either. He just wanted me to put my touch on it.

But like Rick said, if I show him a concept, I've already done the creative work, which is what I charge for.

This isn't a sign shop customer BTW, it's a retail customer. I don't have issues like this with most sign people since they understand the value of design

I'll never understand sign shops doing a layout for free as part of the process. To me, your saying to your customer "This design isn't worth anything, here, take it". If your just getting started, it may be necessary to build a portfolio, but once you have a portfolio, like Rick said, send them there to see your work. To me, the design, not the materials or fabrication, is what makes a sign effective. So why give that away?

Can you imagine an architect working for free just so his client can see what their house ideas might look like?

You see, there is a major difference between professionals and wannabees. You can find them anywhere and in any line of work, but let's stay focused on our industry for the moment.

So many people who THINK and BELIEVE they are truly artists, designers, creators..... whatever, tend to think they have something to prove. They wanna be the first to show off and say look at me, look at me, see what I can do. These are the people who will as you put it, give it away for free, because they truly don't know the value. Perhaps, their designs have no value, but to them, they believe they do. Very unfortunate..... but these are the very people who get chosen to do the work, cause they work so cheap. That's what the majority of end-users want..... cheap and fast. With that combination.... quality usually doesn't follow in the same sentence. Therefore, people like yourself and other good designers here and around the globe will make end-users wait for professionalism. They wait, and YES, they pay the price. Stick to your guns and run your business whichever way you choose, but like everything else, there is a time to be professional and a time to be cheap. Pick the one that works best for you and your business.

Don't go off half cocked and promise the world and then..... not come through. Even a cheap-O end user dislikes a person who wishes to be or do something, but lacks the qualifications or talent.

 

[Marlene]

You see, there is a major difference between professionals and wannabees. You can find them anywhere and in any line of work, but let's stay focused on our industry for the moment.

So many people who THINK and BELIEVE they are truly artists, designers, creators..... whatever, tend to think they have something to prove. They wanna be the first to show off and say look at me, look at me, see what I can do. These are the people who will as you put it, give it away for free, because they truly don't know the value. Perhaps, their designs have no value, but to them, they believe they do. Very unfortunate..... but these are the very people who get chosen to do the work, cause they work so cheap. That's what the majority of end-users want..... cheap and fast. With that combination.... quality usually doesn't follow in the same sentence. Therefore, people like yourself and other good designers here and around the globe will make end-users wait for professionalism. They wait, and YES, they pay the price. Stick to your guns and run your business whichever way you choose, but like everything else, there is a time to be professional and a time to be cheap. Pick the one that works best for you and your business.

Don't go off half cocked and promise the world and then..... not come through. Even a cheap-O end user dislikes a person who wishes to be or do something, but lacks the qualifications or talent.

a lot of people listen to the customer when they complain about a sight unseen purchase or the ever popular "what if I don't like it do I still have to pay you?". it is hard for some as there are so many shops that do give it away so when they don't, the customer has no idea why. just lot a job as the guy wanted me to go look at his building, talk to zoning and planning about the permits, and design the sign, not just a design but several he could choose what he liked best. all of this, of course for free. I sent him a quote for a site survey, permitting and design. I get back an e-mail saying he is going with a smaller company that is willing to work with him.

 

[nikdoobs]

"no"

that is the answer to his question

This. It's not that hard.

 

[neato]

This. It's not that hard.

Your right, it's easy to say "no". But I'm not looking for the easy way, I do want to maintain a relationship with this guy.