Can I sell these legally?

[Gino]

Okay, I see what you mean, but you're wrong.

Nothing makes a difference whether you are making one, two or 200,000. You simply don't have permission to do this. Short and sweet. Can you go in to a museum, snap a picture of a famous painting and then run it through your printer and sell it ?? Once ?? Twice.... or a couple dozen times ?? Of course not. Regardless of who instals said product.... who's the one pushing buttons making counterfeit prints ?? You are, therefore, you are the guilty party, not some bozo customer.

These people went to a lota trouble by using all the procedures and time frames this sort of thing takes, not to mention the many thousands of dollars it costs to do this correctly. They have a right to protect their property, no matter whoever any of you want to make slight of it.

Many years ago, trademarks and copyrights were in place to make sure no one copied to fool the public into buying things from an impostor. With the computers and internet, it has become so easy to do this and because none of you agree with this procedure, you just wanna make fun of it and come up with your stories and newly applied rules.

None of you like it when another shop steals drawings from you, cause ya all claim some kinda copyrights to even mental images..... good greif, how hypocritical is this bunch ?? Y'all think putting a watermark or a hidden initial in it somewhere makes it yours and only yours, huh ?? Now, let's move ahead to the last few decades. As people copy things and try to steal business or other things, you still want to defend it, because you can make a decent buck at it. Well, fine and dandy, if ya can get away with it, I guess it's alright by the law's standards, too. However, what if you made a miserable attempt at duplicating something and it completely mis-represented the people you stole their artwork from and they got mad because you were misrepresenting them in a horrible way ?? Don't they have a right to not only me mad, but to have your @ss hauled into court ?? I've seen some of the re-dos here of people's feeble attempts to make something their own, only to have a royal miscarriage of a logo or image. Then that garbage is out their.... misrepresenting the intended party who is not aware of this fiasco.

So, just becasue you might be able to pull it off and get away with it and make some money copying..... you still fell it's okie-dokie ??

 

[HDvinyl]

Just print the whole picture(which I assume the customer owns) but still contour cut around the car. He can peel the car off.

 

[dawg]

bottom line is , customer brought a picture to print and put onto customer car..

you did not setup production for carlogo..

you did not advertised, no where you printing car logo..

========================================

but, since you asked here, it can be evaluated as a type of advertising about you print logo..


so best idea dont asking.. simply doing, because you make a one time customized stuff..

you might can buy 10 inch sized but customer asking for 11.5 inches, so it falling as a one time customized work..
your customer also cant advertise you making these..

so everything just be fine..

================================================

gino somehow youre right.. however if this man dont ask but simply makes it... (i meaning he puts an enlarged bmw logo onto a bmw car)

no one can throw that virtual stone.. i can put a large ford logo onto my tailgate.. there will be no harm.. i dont put it on a dodge i put it onto a ford.. i dont mislead no one..

same way, if the local college football team asking you screenprint their t-shirt ... then you dont have to ask no any permission.. you make for the footbal team their own logo..

 

[Laz0924]

Anyway you slice, dice or justify it the fact is that it is still illegal. So the question becomes one of morals, only you can answer that..

 

[S'N'S]

I would have cut them, slapped them on and been paid by the time you typed out the question. And as for original car logo's etc, I have done heaps for the local panel shop.

Harley is a different kettle of fish, a few years ago I read that they actually make more money selling all there crap ( clothing, accessories, stickers etc, etc ) than what they did selling there crap bikes. So they will do anything protect that market.

 

[ddarlak]

I probably break one or two laws on a daily basis and never think twice about it, I would do this every day and twice on sunday.....

 

[Biker Scout]

AUTOMOBILES AND STRUCTURAL PARTS THEREOF

A decal does not follow under this term.

Large corporations like this often times have licensing departments. Where they get a kickback, and you get to profit off their logo and likeness. Was mentioned above about college football teams... well, most are under brand and licensing with the NCAA, and they do go after counterfeiters and unlicensed team jersey/apparel producers. Harley and Disney also have a history of going after unlicensed vendors as well.

Nissan sells cars, and they have never once, in their entire corporate history gone after anyone making car decals with their logo/likeness. They are not in the decal business, as stated by their copyright. Somebody please pull up a Disney copyright usage form. I guarantee apparel will be on there, and possibly decals/stickers. When you file for those patents and copyright usage forms, you have to select what it's going to be protecting specifically. I know, I've done it. Then you have to show them an example of the usage, and has to be real world too... not a virtual sample.

One of my clients is FreshBalls.com and their parent company that makes health and body products is called Fresh Body. Well, guess who came late the to game in registering Fresh Body, FuBu... that's right, the clothing manufacturer. They want Fresh Body to cease and desist using the FB and Fresh Body logos. Even though they do not have a claim. The patent attorneys on the case are bickering back and forth over nothing. FuBu does not have a claim, because, well, Fresh Body filed waaaayy first, AND they are not selling the same items. We have clear usage rights, and an actual product on the shelf. FuBu was just trying to kick around a new marketing idea for a line of clothes they hadn't made yet. And sent their attorneys after my client's attorneys. It's just really just to eat up their money and hope Fresh Body gives up because it's financially draining to keep answering the suit every 3 months.

It's easier to just not make them anymore if you get a letter from Nissan. Which I will be willing to bet my left testicle that you never will.

 

[mlm22]

There is no way on earth that Nissan is going to come after you for doing one logo for one car. It's just not worth their time, even IF someone ratted on you. The same way they ignored your phone call inquiry is the same way they'll ignore someone who calls them to complain about you. It's just way not worth their wasted time. Now, as others have said, if you start selling them on Amazon or Ebay, that may be a different story.

Do it and sleep well 2-nite!

 

[GAC05]

AUTOMOBILES AND STRUCTURAL PARTS THEREOF

A decal does not follow under this term.

Large corporations like this often times have licensing departments. Where they get a kickback, and you get to profit off their logo and likeness. Was mentioned above about college football teams... well, most are under brand and licensing with the NCAA, and they do go after counterfeiters and unlicensed team jersey/apparel producers. Harley and Disney also have a history of going after unlicensed vendors as well.

Nissan sells cars, and they have never once, in their entire corporate history gone after anyone making car decals with their logo/likeness. They are not in the decal business, as stated by their copyright. Somebody please pull up a Disney copyright usage form. I guarantee apparel will be on there, and possibly decals/stickers. When you file for those patents and copyright usage forms, you have to select what it's going to be protecting specifically. I know, I've done it. Then you have to show them an example of the usage, and has to be real world too... not a virtual sample.

One of my clients is FreshBalls.com and their parent company that makes health and body products is called Fresh Body. Well, guess who came late the to game in registering Fresh Body, FuBu... that's right, the clothing manufacturer. They want Fresh Body to cease and desist using the FB and Fresh Body logos. Even though they do not have a claim. The patent attorneys on the case are bickering back and forth over nothing. FuBu does not have a claim, because, well, Fresh Body filed waaaayy first, AND they are not selling the same items. We have clear usage rights, and an actual product on the shelf. FuBu was just trying to kick around a new marketing idea for a line of clothes they hadn't made yet. And sent their attorneys after my client's attorneys. It's just really just to eat up their money and hope Fresh Body gives up because it's financially draining to keep answering the suit every 3 months.

It's easier to just not make them anymore if you get a letter from Nissan. Which I will be willing to bet my left testicle that you never will.

I think you will be ok as long as your legal last name is Nissan:
http://www.nissan.com/Lawsuit/The_Story.php

wayne k
guam usa

 

[Biker Scout]

They are just mad because they don't have Nissan.com or .net (I bet if they offered to buy the guy's domain for $10 million, have him sign a non-compete etc, instead of suing him for it, things would have never got out of hand legally)

Well, sure... Starbucks successfully sued "Buck's Coffee" (The guy's legal last name) even though he had been in business long before Starbucks even was a company. They claim crap like brand dilution, and trademark infringement etc... it's really a game of who has the most legal power. Mr. Buck I think was forced to change his business. But as a result of this nonsense, I think supporters came to his establishment 10-fold ever since.

 

[Gino]

Okay, so let's do it your way, folks.

Next time someone comes here complaining about a cusotmer taking a drawing, which has nothing on it identifying ownership or not and has your competition do the sign instead of you, just remember this thread. There's no right or wrong according to most of you.... it's just if you get caught and get away with it or not, cause you don't care jack about the law or ownership.

I guess that goes for all you supposed designers who do a sign and when you later see the customer had work done without asking your permission, you don't have a pot to p!ss in cause the law only pertains to you when you want it or need it ??

How does the law protect you, but nobody else, when these other people have done it 100% by the book, but you can't see it ??

So why is it, we don't see more replicas of famous paintings.... or do we all know how dangerous it is to copy paintings, but not logos.



Forgery, counterfeit and just poor judgement calls will not hold up anywhere if you ever get caught. While it's frowned upon by just about the whole world, y'all know better, cause you're a little guy and no one will care. Yep, makes total sense now.

 

[Trip59]

Okay, so let's do it your way, folks.

Next time someone comes here complaining about a cusotmer taking a drawing, which has nothing on it identifying ownership or not and has your competition do the sign instead of you, just remember this thread. There's no right or wrong according to most of you.... it's just if you get caught and get away with it or not, cause you don't care jack about the law or ownership.

I guess that goes for all you supposed designers who do a sign and when you later see the customer had work done without asking your permission, you don't have a pot to p!ss in cause the law only pertains to you when you want it or need it ??

How does the law protect you, but nobody else, when these other people have done it 100% by the book, but you can't see it ??

So why is it, we don't see more replicas of famous paintings.... or do we all know how dangerous it is to copy paintings, but not logos.



Forgery, counterfeit and just poor judgement calls will not hold up anywhere if you ever get caught. While it's frowned upon by just about the whole world, y'all know better, cause you're a little guy and no one will care. Yep, makes total sense now.

In an average week:

Can you make me a bar and shield? Nope
Can you make this ____ life sticker like my buddy has? Nope
Can you make a Monster sticker for my window? Nope

The list goes on, but after each and every 'nope' is:

But the guy [down the road, at the flea market, in the last town I lived, eBay, etc.] would do it... "I'm sure he would and it won't hurt my feelings if he breaks the law."


I'm sorry but it's not legal, even if you don't get caught, and is below my ethical standards. I won't make enough reproducing copyrighted work to pay my lawyer, and I wouldn't sleep well at night even if I did. This is right up there with we do not use cheap material, we do not undercut everyone else in town just to get business, etc. If I get to a point I have to duck my standards to stay open, it's time to not be open anymore and go buy that hot dog cart.

 

[Biker Scout]

Like the small time designer or sign shop can actually go after someone who's apparently stolen their "Designs" and had a competitor print them. Best you can do is p!ss and moan, maybe to the ex-client and maybe to the competitor to bad mouth him. You've really got an attorney on retainer to go after these people? Probably not. You just get more grumpy, go about your day and tighten up your internal artwork controls. My stuff gets stolen all the time. I hate it, but what can I really do?

In the end, you still retire the same. Made some signs, hopefully made some money. Still spends the same at the tiki bar on the beach. It's just how many years extra it took you to get to the beach?

 

[Baz]

Some of you can put on the crown and say no way would i take the chance. (i call BS on that one ... most of you would still have chopped it up and not say anything on here ... You know i am right!)

I myself don't give a rats ... If the request was plain and simple (because i usually turn those customers away) I would have cut those two stickers and put a couple of twenties in my pocket for the 10 minutes ot would have taken me to cut it out with scrap material and it would have paid for a large case of beer for the weekend. You know ... To help me sleep better.

 

[HIGHSPEEDGRAPHIX]

Some of you can put on the crown and say no way would i take the chance. (i call BS on that one ... most of you would still have chopped it up and not say anything on here ... You know i am right!)

I myself don't give a rats ... If the request was plain and simple (because i usually turn those customers away) I would have cut those two stickers and put a couple of twenties in my pocket for the 10 minutes ot would have taken me to cut it out with scrap material and it would have paid for a large case of beer for the weekend. You know ... To help me sleep better.

 

[CES020]

I haven't yet met the sign company owner that hasn't made something that was protected by copyright.

Search this forum for the word Copyright and you'll find threads by those saying they never violate it, violating it and asking if it was okay. I read one post that said they took an image off the internet, cropped it, and then distorted it a little and wanted to know if that was okay.

You'll find threads where people have brought them competitors renderings and they have made the signs to those specs, and many other examples.

Let's be honest, most people don't think it's stealing if it's from some big corporation rather than some fellow craftsman.

It's the same thing as going into a building that's been there for 20 years and copying the signs in the building for a replacement sign. You didn't design the signs 20 years ago, you don't own the rights to produce them now, but it's done every day in this business.

It's all a judgement call and I think most everyone on here are trying their best to do the right thing, day in and day out, and my guess is that we've all passed on the opportunity to make some good money because we have done the right thing and not copied something.

I don't think it's black and white, I believe there is some gray in there.

Let's take signs inside a building for example. A customer asks you to reproduce a sign for them in an office building. You didn't design the signs. They want a rendering to show the tenant for approval. Can you do that? Legally? Probably not. However, when you try and figure out who made the signs, you run into issues because they didn't have them made, the person that owned the building 3 owners back did and they are long gone. So no one knows who designed the signs. So do you turn the work down? Do you think your customer is going to be okay with not having a sign up? No. They WILL have a sign up and it WILL match the other signs. So you risk losing the customer over it. So who's right? What's the impact on your business? You have to satisfy your own mind that you have done all you can do to resolve it and if it can't be resolved, then you go from there.

 

[Trip59]

I haven't yet met the sign company owner that hasn't made something that was protected by copyright.

Search this forum for the word Copyright and you'll find threads by those saying they never violate it, violating it and asking if it was okay. I read one post that said they took an image off the internet, cropped it, and then distorted it a little and wanted to know if that was okay.

You'll find threads where people have brought them competitors renderings and they have made the signs to those specs, and many other examples.

Let's be honest, most people don't think it's stealing if it's from some big corporation rather than some fellow craftsman.

It's the same thing as going into a building that's been there for 20 years and copying the signs in the building for a replacement sign. You didn't design the signs 20 years ago, you don't own the rights to produce them now, but it's done every day in this business.

It's all a judgement call and I think most everyone on here are trying their best to do the right thing, day in and day out, and my guess is that we've all passed on the opportunity to make some good money because we have done the right thing and not copied something.

I don't think it's black and white, I believe there is some gray in there.

Let's take signs inside a building for example. A customer asks you to reproduce a sign for them in an office building. You didn't design the signs. They want a rendering to show the tenant for approval. Can you do that? Legally? Probably not. However, when you try and figure out who made the signs, you run into issues because they didn't have them made, the person that owned the building 3 owners back did and they are long gone. So no one knows who designed the signs. So do you turn the work down? Do you think your customer is going to be okay with not having a sign up? No. They WILL have a sign up and it WILL match the other signs. So you risk losing the customer over it. So who's right? What's the impact on your business? You have to satisfy your own mind that you have done all you can do to resolve it and if it can't be resolved, then you go from there.

Ah, one of the fun parts of copyright law, work product, works for hire, etc.